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Post by DGN on Apr 4, 2011 9:32:23 GMT -5
A lot of times in the forum, there has been an argument for an acrobatic character; the two of those are NiGHTS and Aero the Acrobat. There have been plenty of arguments for why those two should or shouldn't be in.
My own grading for NiGHTS:
Representation: 4: It gives us another non-sonic sega rep, and at that probably one of the most popular and unique.
Moveset Potential: 5: Acrobatics, the star loops, being celestial, being able to combine with a body, flying around all the time, grabbing an enemy mid-air for a mid-air throw, plus its air moves are already done, from the game.
Uniqueness: 5: Nights, like mentioned above, is acrobatic, and at that more acrobatic than Aero, a nightmaren of unkown gender that can play a flute without a flute at that, can join with another person to help the world, and at that the world in their dreams, preventing nightmares from the people of the world and stopping villains from making people forever in a nightmare.
Popularity: 5: NiGHTS had a game for the Wii, boosting its popularity greatly, a cameo appearance in Sonic DX, was a playable character in Sonic Riders and its sequal, there was a chao baby based on NiGHTS appearance, was playable in Sonic Superstars Tennis, a cameo appearance in Sonic Adventure 2 in the first stage in a billboard, Shadow the Hedgehog as a billboard, she's also in Sonic pinball party, sonic shuffle, billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg as an egg creature, Sega Superstars with the eyetoy, was the flagman in Sonic and Sega Super stars racing, and also made a guest appearance in fantasy star online. Basically, if you know Sega, you HAVE to know NiGHTS.
DMX and Phantom's grading for Aero:
Aero's deserving. And that's why Representation should be a 5. It's one of the best platformers on the SNES and Genesis. Moveset Potential is an easy 5 (he can do many things in gameplay) as well as uniqueness (just look at him). Phantom and I have him a grade of 90. I think that fits well
So what does everybody think?
Aero or NiGHTS?
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 4, 2011 15:37:14 GMT -5
Here's my breakdown:
-- Nights --
Representation: Nights is a somewhat overlooked, but good series of games with a stylish main character. Hey. 4.5.
Moveset Potential: There are plenty of gimmicks from the games to use, especially when it comes to air moves and specials. 5
Uniqueness: Nights is obviously one of the most recognizable Sega characters just for her unique design. I'm sure her Crusade counterpart will bring lots of new ideas to the game. 4.5.
Popularity: Nights has appeared in many games, but honestly, she's not the most well-known character outside of Sega fans. However, she's cool in my book. 4.
So, that adds up to 18/20, or out of 100, 90. Almost Generic's score!
-- Aero --
Representation: Aero is another under-appreciated series of games. They have brilliant platforming action and some wicked difficulty. 4.5.
Moveset Potential: Aero's got throwing stars, his signature drill attack, and the ability to fly. Combine this with some items or gimmicks from the games, and we've got something to work with. 4.
Uniqueness: Aero's unique, all right. As far as a Smash character, he probably won't have too much to offer in the line of unique new moves. 3.5.
Popularity: Aero's definitely not the most well-known character in the game, although there have been remakes/ports of his older games recently to help boost "Aero Awareness". (Yes, I made that term up.) 3.
Aero gets 15 out of 20, or a 75. He passes, but not by a lot!
There ya go. I voted for both. Haha.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 4, 2011 16:51:07 GMT -5
I think Aero could use his wings for attacks. They're so big, he can wrap himself up in them. He has gotten a Virtual Console release too. We gave him a 5 for both Representation and Moveset Potential. He has a lot to work with and (like I said before) was in one of the best platformers of the early 90's.
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 4, 2011 17:21:10 GMT -5
He can throw stars and drill.
How is that a 5?
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Post by DGN on Apr 4, 2011 17:23:23 GMT -5
You're not thinking outside the box, El.
Like mentioned before, he can attack with wings, and of course he's a bat, so biting could be put in as well.
He was originally a carny, so he can do a lot of carnival stuff.
Basically, he's an acrobatic bat. That can do a lot of stuff.
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 4, 2011 18:31:36 GMT -5
I only have a box for people I've never heard of.
He sounds fun, but Nights would be better.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 4, 2011 19:51:13 GMT -5
I voted for both NiGHTS and Aero.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 4, 2011 20:50:34 GMT -5
I think some people may appreciate Aero a little more once they've played a match with him. I have a big imagination, I guess...
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 5, 2011 1:12:15 GMT -5
Okay. Time to break this down.
-AERO THE ACROBAT-
Representation: Aero's two games, released for the Genesis and SNES, offered a unique, challenging experience with an unusual but creative style of art and gameplay to match. Aero received the "Best New Character of 1993" award by Electronic Gaming Monthly, though the sequel, Aero the Acrobat 2, did not receive the praise that the original received. But because the original was so well received and widely played, Aero's design would take on that of Aero 1.
-4.5
Popularity: Though Aero was considered to be a great game and despite the award, the game was cleary under-appreciated.
-4
Moveset Potential: Aero can throw stars, ride unicycles, sky-rocket out of cannons, and perform many kinds of acrobatic tricks. And let's not forget his nifty signature drill attack. All that's lacking is the ease of devising standard attacks.
-4.5
Uniqueness: Aero is, indisputably, a character that stands out. A bat that can performs circus tricks - considerably one of the most creatively designed video game characters of the 90s (Let's not forget that award).
-5
CLOSING COMMENTS: Aero really has a lot to offer, with his unique and creative style and representation of one of the most distinctive games of its decade. The fact that his games were overlooked hurts quite a bit, though.
Total: 18/20 - SCORE 90
-NIGHTS-
Representation: Decent. Nights into Dreams was pretty well received and offered a great new experience from the creators of Sonic. However, the Wii version suffered from notably lower scores, mostly due to its unappealing control scheme. Though Nights into Dreams has often been considered a very good game, it has never actually been considered significant to gaming during the time in which it was released.
-3.5
Popularity: The Nights games had some dedicated fans, but the series has not had a major impact on the general gaming consensus.
-4
Moveset potential: His use of Twinkle Dust would definitely be a crucial part of his moveset. His transformations are interesting to note, but offer nothing, besides a potential final smash, in a Smash Bros. moveset. However, considering his body structure and magic abilities, the simplicity of designing standard attacks is an important advantage for Nights.
-3.5
Uniquness: While all Nights really has to offer in terms of gameplay is some pretty pixie dust, he possesses quite a unique appearance and represents a somewhat creative artstyle.
-3.5
CLOSING COMMENTS: Nights comes from a good game, but perhaps not a good enough game. He may be popular and iconic, but playing Nights is likely to become boring quickly because he has little to offer in terms of a unique moveset.
Total: 14.5/20 - SCORE 73
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 5, 2011 2:29:20 GMT -5
I must say, the way you phrased Aero's moveset potential score really made me rethink my review of him... But again, just about any decent video game character should have lots of potential for moves in Smash. I mean, case in point, Mach Rider.
Also, 3.5 for uniqueness? Urgh. Art style? Why is that even mentioned? Art style has nothing to do with it.
On that note, let me throw something out there. This may be a little biased, coming from the guy who is all about the gameplay, but I think it's important in the long run. Why not, for the Uniqueness category, consider things other than the original appearances of the characters? We should think also about the way the characters would work in Crusade: Would they highly resemble anyone else in the game? Would their movesets be new and unique? A character may have lots of moveset potential, but then turn out to be very similar to another character (as in, Falcon and Ganondorf). We must try to pick characters who can potentially bring new moves and playstyles to the game. I think that so far, our newcomers have managed that quite handily, so we should continue this!
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Post by PartisanDaw on Apr 5, 2011 6:09:33 GMT -5
Wait,wait,wait,wait!
What's about Sprites. I don't saw so many NIGHTS and Aero Sprites.
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Post by DGN on Apr 5, 2011 6:19:53 GMT -5
@falcon: exactly. Uniqueness is about them, not what they look like.
Daw, Aero has more than NiGHTS.
@phantom: Have you ever played NiGHTS? He does and could really do a lot more than pixie dust. Just pressing C while flying around in different directions could prove to be all of its air attacks.
EDIT: Also, you gave Aero a 4 in popularity? I honestly think he deserves a 3, just like with Ristar. Ristar received a virtual console before him, though, but alas, Aero just doesn't seem as popular as some other people.
I think I'm going to stick to Falcon's scores
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 5, 2011 16:21:30 GMT -5
Here's what I have to say about NiGHTS:   If we have these two already, what's the point of Nights? That's what I think. And there's no question that Rosalina is wanted more than Nights. |
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Post by DGN on Apr 5, 2011 16:27:59 GMT -5
You're looking at appearance too much, and at that, NiGHTS is a jester.
Neither of those two are acrobatic, neither of those spins around in the air performing as many tricks as possible(rosalina just floats), and I'm pretty sure NiGHTS would be a much better character than Rosalina, seeing as how Rosalina never actually fought anyone, NiGHTS has, Rosalina could be replaced by a better Mario character or just not have her, seeing how many Mario reps there are already, and NiGHTS brings another non-Sonic sega char to the mix
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Post by Slissith on Apr 5, 2011 16:36:05 GMT -5
That is actually a good idea, Gernic. Personally I never was particularly fond of Rosalina (Petey would have been better!) so we could remove her and put both.
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 5, 2011 16:53:10 GMT -5
I agree with the two above.
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 5, 2011 21:26:33 GMT -5
I think what Doc is trying to say (and this I agree with) is that Nights's moveset is bound to be inherently similar to those of other magic-users such as Rosalina (especially), Vaati, and even Zelda. His manner of communicating this idea - by using unnecessarily high-res images and few actual written statements to support his opinion - was not well developed, rushed, and thus, misleading. IMO Nights's magic abilities don't bring much of anything new to the table because of their simplicity and uniformity.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 5, 2011 22:19:43 GMT -5
New to the table.....you mean like how Aero does?
Acrobatics: Zero Suit Samus, Diddy Kong.
Throwing Stars: Star Rod
Shot out of Cannon: Barrel Cannons
Ride Unicycle: No one yet, but how would this be implemented without being ourtight unbelieveable?
Drill Attack: Meta Knight, Morrigan (who is also planned)
Pretty much what I've heard he can do has been done before in Smash and Crusade. Nothing really NEW to the table, but combining different elements makes him UNIQUE at least.
As for NiGHTS, a moveset can easily be come up with to where he's NOT like Zelda or Rosalina.
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 6, 2011 0:35:14 GMT -5
Eh, maybe Nights should be on the back-burner for a while? We plan to make it an unlockable anyway. We have other characters to make first! But of course, continue the discussion.
By the way, ARE there any good sprite sheets of Nights?
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Post by DGN on Apr 6, 2011 6:09:06 GMT -5
spriters-resource.com/custom_edited/nights/sheet/16642Unfortunately I think these are the only good ones.  Also, Phantom, NiGHTS barely uses magic whatsoever at all in her game; just sparkles around her different moves and joining with another person. Your argument is invalid.
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