KAMEHAMEHAAAAA

[El Maiz]

Kamehameha and Kaioken are not what makes him good.

He just has everything but good recovery.

[dry]

Yep, I agree. Actually, I don't think his recovery is bad at all. He's invincible during it, making him hard to edgeguard, and the vast majority of the time it has enough distance. I'd say he was a little vulnerable to spikes, but other than that distance isn't much of an issue, especially for a decently heavy character like Goku. Personally I think his flaws are that he is vulnerable to spikes, quite large, with fast falling speed, making him easy to combo, and that he lacks a quick spacing move that hits on both sides (his down smash only hits one side, and his slow jump means he can't just SHFF a n-air).

Still one of the best characters in the game. No doubt.

[falcon8r]

I'm glad you think so. I always thought Kamehameha and Kaioken were maybe a bit overpowered, but like anything else, knowledge is power. It's easy to punish/abuse these moves. Goku's real strength lies in his excellent spacing game and his speed. He has fast, solidly large normal attacks, and he's one of the fastest characters on the ground.

[PartisanDaw]

Still Goku is Broken,but one of the best characters in Crusade.
Kamehameha is easy to dodge.
His Kaokein is good programed,but i don't like his DB when in Kaioken Form.
A bit overpowered.

[dry]

I think the risk from the move makes up for the overpoweredness. It's not programmed like a grab, so you can actually just dodge it by shielding. And when you dodge it, he's a sitting duck. I think the risk is a good balancer for a powerful spike that does 23% damage. It's like Rest and Falcon Pawnch; super high risk, super high reward.

[PartisanDaw]

Agreed here.

But seriusly DSpecial need to be nerfed a bit.

[dry]

Well, I've never had any problems from that d-special. The problems I've had with Goku are just that he's too fast, powerful and long-ranged at once, and that he has two great projectiles. He reminds me of Snake from Brawl. A lot.

[El Maiz]

Except that while only Snake's attacks were fast, Goku has better overall speed as well.

[dry]

Wait what? What do you mean only Snake's attacks? His special moves are all projectiles or recovery, they don't need to be fast , and Goku's specials aren't the fastest either.

[El Maiz]

I mean that Snake had fast attacks, but didn't move very fast.

Goku has faster attacks, and moves VERY fast.

[dry]

Oh, I see. Well I dunno about Snake moving slow. He had one of the fastest falling speeds in the game, and one of the best DACUS. But yeah, he doesn't stand a chance in a race against Goku.

[ensane]

Faster falling speed means easier to combo. Plus, unlike other fast fallers like Fox, he doesn't have anything to help him get to the ground. Also in Crusade there's no DACUS. I know you weren't talking about Crusade but, it's still relevant.

[dry]

speaking of falling speed, does it affect vertical survivability like it does in brawl? i'm still not convinced about snake's tier position, and if that changed, that might have played a part in it

[ensane]

Hmm, I don't know. Might need to ask Falcon. I was wondering if falling speed still affected landing lag, too.