My problems with the Roster

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Here are my true problems with the roster.
WARNING: LONG READ AHEAD

1. The exclusion of a second Metal Gear character. This is what gets me the most (ironically NOT Rival Trainer), MG was the first 3rd Party to grace Smash with Snake's inclusion in Brawl, and until 2007, would be the ONLY 3rd Party series in Brawl, so it's deserving of at least 1 more character. I mean, Sonic has 5 characters now. (Shadow and Eggman, despite having their own icons, still count as Sonic characters)
And Megaman has two characters, while Megaman was NOT in Brawl.
Seeing as Raiden is the new star of the MGS series, and has moves that Gray Fox uses (a character that's requested by many, including Falcon8r) and more, he's the perfect choice.

2. Rival Trainer. I can't stress this enough. Not only is he used to try to play off the system that Pokemon Trainer uses, but he's from the same Generation. And not only that, he has Pokemon that he never used, are fully evolved, and are extremely light (Gengar) and extremely heavy (Aggron). Not only that, but two are the same type as each other (Scizor and Aggron) and another existing character (Lucario). 3 Steel types? I don't think so. It more or less seems that this character was made by choosing 3 random popular Pokemon and making them playable, and to represent every Generation. Not every Generation needs a playable representative.
Now, suggestions instead of Rival Trainer, I have two.
The first is Meowth, a popular Pokemon that is a fan favorite, and has almost as much screen time as Pikachu in the anime. Meowth was also planned for the original Super Smash Bros., and is the only character that was that isn't playable in an official Smash thus far. What makes him different from someone like Dixie Kong and Toon Zelda, who were planned for Brawl? He isn't a failure. Toon Zelda would play like Zelda, and would be a lighter version of an already light character. We had one before, do you remember? Pichu? As for Dixie, I'm just going to say that K. Rool is a FAR better choice than another Kong. Meowth would not be a clone of anybody, and can provide a versatile moveset for a Normal type.

The second suggestion is to replace Blue with May as the Trainer, and have her use Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken. This is because, while Red is the most popular male Trainer, May is the most popular female Trainer. Not only that, but she's from the 3rd Generation, which lacks a representative AT ALL. (2nd had Pichu in Melee). As for why the ones chosen, here's why: Mudkip, I hardly need to explain, but i herd u liek mudkipz. Grovyle plays a major role in a Mystery Dungeon (Gengar does as well, but the difference is, Grovyle is actually liked by fans, while Gengar passes off as a douche.), and Blaziken is pretty much the only other fully evolved starter that has as much popularity as the original 3. Not only that, but this combination is the most popular Trainer/Pokemon combination suggested for Smash.
Don't believe me?
Here's some examples:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAEBPOjVBQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUgbAHhLMCI&feature=related (2:56)
supersmashbrosfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:Snowh8er/Female_Pokemon_Trainer (You will need to copy and paste this one. This forum doesn't want to properly link it.)
There are more. Trust me.

And the Pokemon would not be clones of Red's Pokemon because of their body shape and what they are. Squirtle is a turtle, Mudkip is a walking mud fish. Ivysaur is a toad with a flower on it's back, Grovyle is a gecko. Charizard is a dragon, Blaziken is a humanoid fighing chicken.

3. Protoman. Of all the Megaman characters to choose, Protoman? This wouldn't be too terribly bad if he was just ADDED, but that's not the case. He REPLACED someone. Someone far more greater; Zero.
Zero has had his own series, and is the only Megaman character to do so (Tron has had a GAME, but not a full series). Not only that, but with his inclusion instead of Megaman in Marvel vs. Capcom 3 shows that he is better suited than Protoman for this game. Especially because we have Mega, we don't need Proto. This would be the same as adding Ken from Street Fighter. Zero also uses weapons that Megaman doesn't use, like a laser sword, Dark Hold, the "Rainbow Meteor" as I call it, and other things.
Zero can also pass off to have his own icon, like Shadow, Eggman, and Waluigi, especially because he has something they don't; his own series.

4. No non-Sonic SEGA characters other than Ristar. SEGA is more than just Sonic, you know. Well, I guess you do, you have Ristar, and *record scratch* JUST Ristar? No NiGHTS, Aiai, Amigo, Ulala, Akira, Billy Hatcher, etc? Not even Vectorman, who was also another classic character like Ristar, except he was more popular and had a sequel? This needs to change. Despite me favoring the Sonic series, I'm willing to sacrifice Eggman for someone like Vectorman. Vectorman is my bias, because I played his games ALONG with Ristar, thanks to the Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Gems Collection.

Feel free to comment.

[Werekill]

I might do an in-depth reply later, but I'm tired~

However, I WILL go ahead and argue that I like Dawn way better than May. She's just a ton cuter, lol, and way better than the 4th gen male.

[member 777]

metal gear will most likely have an other rep

[DGN]

Ivysaur...is a toad?
Ivysaur is a dinosaur. Hence the "saur" in both names.


Anyways, I agree with Golden's post.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

One of those characters isn't even on the roster...I really don't know where you got that one...

And with Rival Trainer, you get 3 new types offered: Ghost, Bug, and Steel. Out of all the 11 Pokemon in Crusade, not a single one is the same type. Having any of your suggestions would break such a unique part of the roster.

Well, let's look at Metal Gear and Mega Man, shall we? You say Metal Gear deserves another rep. while Mega Man doesn't.

Now let's say we have Zero and Gray Fox (who you support).

Gray Fox is well known for being the Cyborg Ninja and is considered one of the best ninjas of all time in video games. Zero boosted in popularity when the X series came out and received his own line-up of games.

Gray Fox is probably the 2nd most popular Metal Gear character. Zero is probably the 2nd most popular Mega Man character.

I really don't know what else to say. I think we have enough Konami reps right now.

[El Maiz]

Lucario is Steel.
He didn't request Gray Fox. Try reading the post.
He never said that Mega Man didn't deserve another rep, either.

You guys have mentioned Protoman being on the roster.
There's been all the stuff about Rival Trainer. I assume this means that Protoman was cut.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

May 18, 2011 6:59:26 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

One of those characters isn't even on the roster...I really don't know where you got that one...

And with Rival Trainer, you get 3 new types offered: Ghost, Bug, and Steel.Out of all the 11 Pokemon in Crusade, not a single one is the same type. Having any of your suggestions would break such a unique part of the roster.

Well, let's look at Metal Gear and Mega Man, shall we? You say Metal Gear deserves another rep. while Mega Man doesn't.

Now let's say we have Zero and Gray Fox (who you support).

Gray Fox is well known for being the Cyborg Ninja and is considered one of the best ninjas of all time in video games. Zero boosted in popularity when the X series came out and received his own line-up of games.

Gray Fox is probably the 2nd most popular Metal Gear character. Zero is probably the 2nd most popular Mega Man character.

I really don't know what else to say. I think we have enough Konami reps right now.

Do you REALLY not pay attention? Lucario is Steel type. Scizor is Steel type. Aggron is Steel type. THREE F-ING Steel types. Don't give me the crap that "Oh, one's a Fighting type, one's a Bug type, and one's a Rock type". Doesn't change the fact that THEY ARE ALL STEEL TYPE. You are flat out LYING when you say that no Pokemon has the same type. There are THREE that do, and two of them are Pokemon YOU'RE adding.
At least with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken, they are requested by many for the next Smash, and a lot of those people are OUTSIDE this Forum! Heavily requested, and actually popular/important. Your Pokemon are just.....random.
If your intention is to have all unique types, you done goofed.

Oh, one of those isn't on the Roster?
Suck it:
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus Aran/Zero Suit Samus
5. Yoshi
6. Kirby
7. Fox McCloud
8. Pikachu
9. Ness
10. Captain Falcon
11. Luigi
12. Jigglypuff
13. Bowser
14. Princess Peach
15. Zelda / Sheik
16. Marth
17. Mewtwo
18. Ganondorf
19. Wario
20. Meta Knight
21. Pit
22. Diddy Kong
23. Pokemon Trainer (Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle)
24. Lucas
25. Ike
26. Pikmin / Olimar
27. King Dedede
28. Lucario
29. Solid Snake
30. Sonic the Hedgehog
31. Falco Lombardi
32. Roy
33. Young Link
34. Mr. Game & Watch
35. Wolf O’Donnell
36. R.O.B.
37. Toad
38. Ridley
39. Gooey
40. Krystal
41. Waluigi
42. Isaac
43. Saki Amamiya
44. Little Mac
45. Rosalina
46. Mach Rider
47. Tails
48. Ryu
49. Ristar
50. Bomberman
51. Knuckles the Echidna
52. Mega Man
53. Goku
54. Bowser Jr.
55. King K. Rool
56. Skull Kid
57. Dark Samus
58. Prince Fluff
59. Rival Trainer (Gengar, Scizor, Aggron)
60. Black Shadow
61. Sukapon
62. Paper Mario
63. Vaati
64. Zoroark
65. Starfy
66. Geno
67. Earthworm Jim
68. Shadow the Hedgehog
69. Morrigan
70. Dr. Robotnik
71. Proto Man
72. Banjo-Kazooie
73. Simon Belmont
74. Black Mage
75. Viewtiful Joe
76. Sub – Zero
77. Lloyd Irving
78. Frank West
79. Aero the Acrobat
80. Pac-Man

That was the latest Roster before you removed Aero. Both characters I said I had a problem with are there. Quit lying.

And 2 reps is enough for Konami? Capcom (who hasn't done CRAP in Smash) has 6!
If anything, you don't have ENOUGH Konami characters! SEGA has 6 as well!

And no, I support RAIDEN. Way to fail. Raiden is the new star of the MGS series, and can do pretty much anything that Gray Fox can.

And if you really feel that way about Zero, why the Hell do you have Protoman in his stead? Unless this was changed YET again, this time for the better?

[DGN]

May 18, 2011 6:59:26 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

You say Metal Gear deserves another rep. while Mega Man doesn't.

He never said that.
He said that there should be another MGS rep before another Megaman rep.
Context clues, man. Context clues.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

Golden, you shouldn't trust everything you see on the internet. Especially with using outdated information that may not even be real. You never know.

And Lucario is primarily fighting, Scizor is primarily bug, and Aggron is primarily ground, and that's what their moves will be like.

And I don't understand why you use the argument "Capcom wasn't ever really in Smash, but Konami was" against me either.

And I'll let Phantom do his work on Zero and Raiden...

[Dettadeus]

Primarily GROUND? Aggron is a steel-rock type, and more of it's attacks are Steel in the first place. Last I checked, Stone Edge is the only worthwhile rock type attack for an Aggron in the first place, whereas there's Iron Tail, Iron Head, and attacks like that on the steel half. Although Aggron could play a defensive steel type, since Scizzor and Lucario are offensive steel types.

And another thing: what is Scizzor used for in competitive play? Swords Danced Bullet Punch. Bullet Punch is a steel type attack.

[phantomhp]

Technically head-smash is another rock aggron favorite, but the fact of the matter is that I use all 3 of those guys because of the resistance steel gets to toxic, and everything else. Sure I at first thought that lucario was psychic type when I first saw it in brawl but that's because I was retired atm and hadn't even seen 4th gen.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

Gengar's Moves:
Standard Special: Mean Look
Gengar darts forward, causing anyone that's facing it and close to stop in place. Gengar can use this time to attack.

Side Special: Dream Eater
Gengar sends a bright light out from his hand. If the opponent that is hit is not asleep, they are put to sleep. If they are asleep, Gengar can drain some of their health, but they will wake up afterward.

Up Special: Sludge Bomb
Gengar jumps a little high into the air and throws a toxic-like orb up. This move is much like Yoshi's Up Special, except the Sludge Bomb can spike if hit as soon as Gengar throws it.

Scizor's Moves:
Standard Special: Silver Wind
Scizor charges (as long as you like) and fires powdery scales blown by wind. The longer you charge it, the faster the projectile is.

Side Special: Fury Cutter
Scizor claws forward with great speed. The more times it successfully hits, the more damage the attack does. When a player is KO'd, it resets back to the original damage.

Up Special: Steel Wing
Scizor leaps high into the air with super armor, leaving small feathers behind that leave damage when touched.

Aggron's Moves:
Standard Special: Stealth Rock
Aggron places some rocks half-way into the ground. Players who touch them (not including Aggron) cannot move for a moment. They can attack, however.

Side Special: Rock Tomb
Aggron chunks a huge rock over his shoulder as a projectile. It will roll for a little while if it hits the ground, but will be crushed if it hits a player.

Up Special: Heavy Slam
Aggron jumps into the air and dives down to attack. The longer he dives, the more damage. In the actual games, Aggron can have the highest base attack for this move.

Final Smash: Giga Impact
All three Pokemon come out to shoot a huge wave across the screen.


boom...

[SmashKing201]

Well, I have to agree with most of Golden's post here as far as the most current roster that has been posted publicly. But I will give my thoughts on it as well.

The Exclusion Of A 2nd Metal Gear Rep
I Defiantly have to agree that Metal Gear deserves a 2nd rep for being a popular series, being Konami's mascot and main franchise, also for being the first 3rd party to have a playable character in the Smash Bros series (and perhaps originally suppose to be the only one for Brawl before Sonic was thrown in). Plus, I know the Sonic series is highly popular and iconic, but for them to have 5 reps while Metal Gear only has Snake is a conspiracy and unfair ruling. Not to mention that Snake couldve been in Melee if the idea was not pitched in so late into development. Even if Konami gets another rep, it still doesnt serve justice for Metal Gear. Now I know Castlevania is highly popular and iconic, but it was Metal Gear that put Konami on the map. Metal Gear is the Super Mario Bros of Konami. Overall, I still like to see Simon Belmont in since Castlevania is Konami's second most popular series, but a 2nd Metal Gear rep should come first. I say we should have Snake, a 2nd Metal Gear rep, and Simon Belmont to have as fair 3rd party reps against Sega & Capcom.
Now as for who the 2nd rep should be. I agree with Golden that it should be Raiden since he is the antagonist character from the later part of the franchise, but I feel that Grey Fox has been around much longer and is more familiar and favored by the fans. I will have to go with Grey Fox on this one despite the fact that both of them can utilize similar fighting styles.

Inclusion Of Rival Trainer
Honestly, this is not the most poor choice, but it is not really a good one either if you ask me. I understand the reason to have Rival Trainer, which is to represent the generations that were left out on the actual Smash Bros games as well as to represent the types of Pokemon as well. But lets be honest, is having a gen rep and Pokemon type rep more important than having a Pokemon that is very popular, played a part for the franchise, etc? I dont think so. Not to mention that the choices are only popular to those who are huge fans of the franchise while we have characters like Mewtwo & Meowth who are popular by the big fans and the casual fans who dont really get into Pokemon as much as those who follow it. Also, I thought that we are looking for uniqueness? Though the Pokemon are different, the types may be different, but in the end of it all it is just another cloned Pokemon Trainer copy-catting the original one. Plus the Rival Trainer doesnt even use some or any of the Pokemon he is give for this game at all. The choice of having the Rival Trainer for the purpose of representing generations that ran its course, not to mentioned were not as popular as the first gen, is not the best choice. I say rather than having a less popular and copy-cat style character who carries 3 Pokemon that were not as greatly popular, how about we throw in Meowth & Mewtwo since they were planned and/or already have been in a Smash game plus their major roles in the entire franchise itself. And add in Zoroark to bring in something fresh from the most recent gen. Lets not have these less popular Pokemon with a cloned Trainer just because of sympathy of the less popular gens not having a rep in the actual Smash game.

Protoman
This one is a poor choice of a Megaman rep if you ask me. Why him if we have not one, but a number of popular and well-known Megaman characters? Roll, Tron, & the antagonist Dr. Neo make more sense than Protoman. Obviously this character is chosen for this game simply due to one or two people's personal favorite rather than the logic of being a good rep. I will have to say Zero is the best choice since he has come a long way since his first appearance in Megaman X, which was an advance gen of the series. Hell, he was picked over Megaman for the most recent MvsC game, though I still think that was not the best option, but still understandable since Zero has broke out to have his own spin off series.

No non-Sonic rep other than Ristar
I agree with Golden 100%. Though Sonic is the mascot of the company and does deserve a number of reps since Sonic series put Sega on the map and rivaled Mario, which is not an easy task. But still, Sega is more than just Sonic. Sega will always be nothing more than just a Sonic company if that series is the only one representing it. Lets break that trend by having a different series. I personally like to see Aiai, but I dont mind settling with Nights either way. There is no point of taking out Ristar out of Crusade and I am not suggesting that, but lets have a non-Sonic Sega rep that has actually had sequels and still relevant to the company. I say Aiai is the next best choice since Super Monkey Ball has spilled out numbers of sequels over the years, or we can have Nights who is Sega's most recent popular series, and if Im right, there is a rumored sequel on the horizon. In conclusion, this is my proposal. Keep Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles to rep the Sonic series of Sega. Take out Shadow & Dr. Eggman since Sonic has enough reps. Replace those 2 with Aiai & Nights. Therefore, we have 3 Sonic reps (Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles) and 3 non-Sonic reps (Ristar, Aiai, & Nights) giving us 6 Sega reps in total. There are already 6 Sega reps in total planned for Crusade, lets at least balance the Sega franchises to break the "Sonic is the only good Sega choice" trend.

Well, there are more things I like to point out from the roster that was posted, but I will just stick with this for the time being.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

The Exclusion Of A 2nd Metal Gear Rep

Everyone's forgetting about one big Konami rep...

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

Inclusion Of Rival Trainer

Then perhaps Pikachu, Jiggs, Lucario, etc. are there to capture the casual Pokemon fans while Aggron, Scizor, and Gengar capture the more core Pokemon audience. And with Pokemon being such a big franchise, this is a necessary balance.

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

Protoman

I'm not even going to touch this one when there's nothing to be complaining about...

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

No non-Sonic rep other than Ristar

I'm going to grade Ai-Ai and take time with it.

Representation: Super Monkey Ball is a popular series and has been one of Sega's recurring franchises since the early 2000's with a few well received games. Most of them (Such as Banana Blitz) recieved mixed reviews ranging from 50's to 80's. One of them actually got 0% score from Rotten Tomatoes (Super Monkey Ball Adventure).
3.5

Popularity: Super Monkey Ball, despite critic scores, is a popular franchise, as well as Ai-Ai. He's gotten many appearances outside of his main series, such as Sonic Riders, Sega Superstars Tennis, and Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing, serving as one of the major characters.
4.5

Viability: Ai-Ai's only real ability is being in that transparent ball, which really doesn't open him up for many moves. In fact, he couldn't even fight unless he was outside of the ball. Still, he can't do anything outside of that.
3

Uniqueness: Ai-Ai takes a very similar appearance to Diddy Kong and if he fought outside of his transparent ball, it would be kinda tricky not to make a clone.
3.5

Total: 14.5

FINAL SCORE: 73/100
He's all around not good enough. Now, if we grade Robotnik.

Representation: Robotnik comes from the Classic Sonic series and is known as one of the greatest video game villains of all time. The original Sonic Trilogy (Including Knuckles and CD) was highly praised.
5

Popularity: Dr. Robotnik has been well-received, going on to become one of the most well-known villains in gaming. GameDaily ranked him number one on their list of Top 25 Evil Masterminds of All Time article, stating "Out of all the evil masterminds in video games, none are more despicable, more cunning, or more menacing". They also included him in their most persistent video game villains list and their craziest video game villains list. In a later article, they listed the "evil mastermind" as one of the top 25 video game archetypes, using Robotnik as an example. He was featured at number three in a "Reader's Choice" edition of GameSpot's "Top Ten Video Game Villains" article, which noted a massive complaint by fans at his exclusion from the original list. Eggman was also named the 15th most diabolical video game villain of all time by PC World. Game Informer notes that in Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, "Eggman's villain ego shows some amusing tarnish after constant defeat at the hands of Sonic." IGN listed him at number nine above Mario-series villain Bowser in their "Top 10 Most Memorable Villains" article, calling him "PETA's videogame public enemy number one", and has also commented that his character is a "pretty clever riff on Teddy Roosevelt" that has added to the attraction of the series. In 2010, IGN listed Dr. Robotnik 11th out of their "Top 100 Videogame Villans". Nintendo Power listed Dr. Robotnik as their seventh favorite villain, also listing him as having one of the best mustaches.
5

Viability: Robotnik's been given many weapons and machines throughout the years. He's not too big, not too small. He'd fit in like a charm.
5

Uniqueness: No other villain can even be compared to Eggman. No one can be compared to him.
5

Total: 20/20

Final Score: 100/100

[Zeldasmash]

What about Nights?

[El Maiz]

May 18, 2011 14:09:23 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

Gengar's Moves:
Standard Special: Mean Look
Gengar darts forward, causing anyone that's facing it and close to stop in place. Gengar can use this time to attack.

Side Special: Dream Eater
Gengar sends a bright light out from his hand. If the opponent that is hit is not asleep, they are put to sleep. If they are asleep, Gengar can drain some of their health, but they will wake up afterward.

Up Special: Sludge Bomb
Gengar jumps a little high into the air and throws a toxic-like orb up. This move is much like Yoshi's Up Special, except the Sludge Bomb can spike if hit as soon as Gengar throws it.

Scizor's Moves:
Standard Special: Silver Wind
Scizor charges (as long as you like) and fires powdery scales blown by wind. The longer you charge it, the faster the projectile is.

Side Special: Fury Cutter
Scizor claws forward with great speed. The more times it successfully hits, the more damage the attack does. When a player is KO'd, it resets back to the original damage.

Up Special: Steel Wing
Scizor leaps high into the air with super armor, leaving small feathers behind that leave damage when touched.

Aggron's Moves:
Standard Special: Stealth Rock
Aggron places some rocks half-way into the ground. Players who touch them (not including Aggron) cannot move for a moment. They can attack, however.

Side Special: Rock Tomb
Aggron chunks a huge rock over his shoulder as a projectile. It will roll for a little while if it hits the ground, but will be crushed if it hits a player.

Up Special: Heavy Slam
Aggron jumps into the air and dives down to attack. The longer he dives, the more damage. In the actual games, Aggron can have the highest base attack for this move.

Final Smash: Giga Impact
All three Pokemon come out to shoot a huge wave across the screen.


boom...

Try adding normal moves.

[SmashKing201]

May 18, 2011 14:51:03 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

The Exclusion Of A 2nd Metal Gear Rep

Everyone's forgetting about one big Konami rep...



Then perhaps Pikachu, Jiggs, Lucario, etc. are there to capture the casual Pokemon fans while Aggron, Scizor, and Gengar capture the more core Pokemon audience. And with Pokemon being such a big franchise, this is a necessary balance.



I'm not even going to touch this one when there's nothing to be complaining about...

May 18, 2011 14:10:07 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

No non-Sonic rep other than Ristar

I'm going to grade Ai-Ai and take time with it.

Representation: Super Monkey Ball is a popular series and has been one of Sega's recurring franchises since the early 2000's with a few well received games. Most of them (Such as Banana Blitz) recieved mixed reviews ranging from 50's to 80's. One of them actually got 0% score from Rotten Tomatoes (Super Monkey Ball Adventure).
3.5

Popularity: Super Monkey Ball, despite critic scores, is a popular franchise, as well as Ai-Ai. He's gotten many appearances outside of his main series, such as Sonic Riders, Sega Superstars Tennis, and Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing, serving as one of the major characters.
4.5

Viability: Ai-Ai's only real ability is being in that transparent ball, which really doesn't open him up for many moves. In fact, he couldn't even fight unless he was outside of the ball. Still, he can't do anything outside of that.
3

Uniqueness: Ai-Ai takes a very similar appearance to Diddy Kong and if he fought outside of his transparent ball, it would be kinda tricky not to make a clone.
3.5

Total: 14.5

FINAL SCORE: 73/100
He's all around not good enough. Now, if we grade Robotnik.

Representation: Robotnik comes from the Classic Sonic series and is known as one of the greatest video game villains of all time. The original Sonic Trilogy (Including Knuckles and CD) was highly praised.
5

Popularity: Dr. Robotnik has been well-received, going on to become one of the most well-known villains in gaming. GameDaily ranked him number one on their list of Top 25 Evil Masterminds of All Time article, stating "Out of all the evil masterminds in video games, none are more despicable, more cunning, or more menacing". They also included him in their most persistent video game villains list and their craziest video game villains list. In a later article, they listed the "evil mastermind" as one of the top 25 video game archetypes, using Robotnik as an example. He was featured at number three in a "Reader's Choice" edition of GameSpot's "Top Ten Video Game Villains" article, which noted a massive complaint by fans at his exclusion from the original list. Eggman was also named the 15th most diabolical video game villain of all time by PC World. Game Informer notes that in Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, "Eggman's villain ego shows some amusing tarnish after constant defeat at the hands of Sonic." IGN listed him at number nine above Mario-series villain Bowser in their "Top 10 Most Memorable Villains" article, calling him "PETA's videogame public enemy number one", and has also commented that his character is a "pretty clever riff on Teddy Roosevelt" that has added to the attraction of the series. In 2010, IGN listed Dr. Robotnik 11th out of their "Top 100 Videogame Villans". Nintendo Power listed Dr. Robotnik as their seventh favorite villain, also listing him as having one of the best mustaches.
5

Viability: Robotnik's been given many weapons and machines throughout the years. He's not too big, not too small. He'd fit in like a charm.
5

Uniqueness: No other villain can even be compared to Eggman. No one can be compared to him.
5

Total: 20/20

Final Score: 100/100

DMX, this my response to your opinons. Lets begin.

2nd Metal Gear Rep
Im assuming from your comment, that you agree with my statement of the lack of a 2nd Metal Gear rep, correct me if wrong.

Rival Trainer
Though I get your point of view of balancing the audience of the Pokemon fans by having the core and casual favorites. But yet, the Pokemon series has so many Pokemon and it really is not simple to split such a wide variety to 2 groups. Especially with the core audience since that side of the fanbase favors so many different Pokemon that we possibly yet havent suggested for Crusade. The Pokemon suggested for the Rival Trainer only are favored and appeal to the core audience while Meowth is favored to both audience. The casual audience favor Meowth for his antics and characteristics from the anime along with recognizing him when they first play the Pokemon series rather than saying "who the ef is that?" (the anime was an important part of Pokemon success). Though Meowth may not be the first favorite choice to have as a main Pokemon in their party for the core fans, unless they have a well trained Meowth, they clearly agree and acknowledge that Meowth has been a major Pokemon in the whole franchise itself and do favor him for his role in the anime series. So why pick a group of Pokemon that can only appeal to one side of the audience when we can have one that appeals to both, plus easier to program for this game. Call this an over-exaggerated statement Im about to make, but even many of the core fans believe that not having Meowth in Smash was a crime. But yea, lets not forget as well that a number of the casual fans lost interest in the series shortly after the 2nd gen.

Protoman
Correct me again if im wrong, but I assume you agree with me. Sorry, im more of a person who understands comments better when they are more explained and specific. ;D

Non-Sonic reps for Sega
Ok, now I will give my thoughts on your grading of Ai-ai & Eggman.

Ai-ai

Representation: I have to somewhat disagree with this grading. Despite the reviews of a number of sources, besides the Sonic series, the series has sold better than any other Sega series. Super Monkey Ball is Sega's 2nd most popular series. Now we have Sonic series to rep Sega, but why not expand what Sega has to offer? Plus, Ai-ai is twice the better representative than Rister. I will have to say that a 4 or 4.5 is a much fair grade for this category.

Popularity: I agree with you 100% on the 4.5

Viability: I agree with you on the most part on this, but what ever happened to being creative? Im sure there is something we can come up with something to make him have more in his repertoire. Plus isnt there items from his series he can use to bring in more variety of attacks? I will have to see what more he can possibly do before giving him a more fair grade.

Uniqueness: I have to disagree with this grading. He wouldnt be a clone of Diddy mainly for one reason. Though it might be possible for them to have similar Smash Attacks if Ai-ai did come out of his ball, but remember, Diddy Kong utilizes Rocket Jet Pack and Peanut Pop Gun while Ai-ai fights inside a hampster ball and can use items from his series to his advantage. I think for the fact that Ai-ai can use his ball for his moveset gives him a great unique fighting style. I suggest a 5 for uniqueness.

Final Grade: Though a 73/100 sounds like a fair grade for him, I disagree that a grade like that is not good enough. 73/100 is almost 3/4 which is a very good grade. Though I have grown to like Ristar in Crusade, but I doubt that Rister would have gotten a higher grade than Ai-ai.


Dr. Eggman.

Representation: I agree with this and 5 is fair for him

Popularity: I agree with you the most part, but then you have to realize this. Yes, he is one of the most popular villains in gaming history, but since Shadow has appeared in the series, he has been the favorite to be the next rep for Sonic. I know Shadow's appearance in the series didn't drastically hurt his popularity, but it appears this it might slightly hurt his chances of being a playable Smash character in a small way. Hell, Shadow is being picked at times over Tails & Knuckles here and there. I personally would prefer Eggman over Shadow, but I think I would probably drop his grade down a slit bit with a 4.5.

Viability: Now for me it is not easy to critique this grade without knowing what abilities or fighting style he will be using. Will he be fighting on foot using his mechanics or will he be seated in his walking machine? I prefer on foot. I will agree and leave this grade with a 5 for now until I hear an update on how he will be used if made playable.

Uniqueness: I do believe he will be unique in his own way, but I think a 5 is a bit over. I say this because with so many characters in this roster planned, and the possibility of a number of characters also using mechanics in their movesets, how would Eggman be so perfectly unique? Depending on what his fighting style and moveset will be like, I will have to say 4.5 is fair enough. There is no way that him using mechanics justify him such a perfect score when we have other potential fighters on the roster that might have the same choices of using mechanic weapons.

Final Grade: I think you graded him well enough, but I believe that a perfect score is a bit over. I think 17 or 18/20 is fair.


@golden. Let me know if this next question may seem off-topic for this thread so I can stop discussing it, but though I feel it may not since we are discussing characters in/out the roster. But yea, DMX, though you and the dev. have given your thoughts on Duckhunt Dog, but characters like Agumon, Ancient Minister, Ratchet, Nights, etc. were given a grade, but the Duckhunt Dog was never graded by the dev team. I was gone give Phantom a PM on a more detailed logical reason before I ask for his grading thoughts. But I figure I can get yours and/or falcon's grading on Duckhunt Dog when you get the chance while your here.

[ensane]

To be honest, I would like Shadow more than Eggman, but the way that the 3 Sonic reps have been designed leaves no room for Shadow. How different could he be? The best I see is DLC. That being said, I don't really think Eggman would be that great either, but that's just opinion.

[DGN]

Shadow has been confirmed on the normal roster, ensane.
DMX, thanks for revealing that our speculation was correct, and Bill Rizer from Contra is in the game! XD
Also, DMX, the most recent game of Monkey Ball had a smash-esque mini game inside, from which he could use those moves. There's also a number of other moves from the games he could use as well. I'd suggest looking at videos on youtube if possible.
Besides, I think we already have a side smash-They use the punching glove that goes out far, that they had in a minigame.
Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you grade Vectorman? I'd suggest watching videos from a vast range of the levels, first, though.
I'd also like to see your scores for Shadow.

[Felipe_9595]

Dont know if somebody noticed this, but if you check one of the .txt files on Crusade 0.6 (Dont remember which one, the one who have the character series on in( Says "castlevania)

Konami Argument: In Same of raiden or Gray FOx, i RICHTER Belmont (or Simon, but Richter is more popular cause Symphony of the Night)

Pokemon Argument: Wtf?? Rival Trainer?? Serious Devs, you run out of ideas, i would go for mewoth or another Iconic character, not a Blue XP

Sega: really dont know about this... Alex Kid XD???