A question.

[DGN]

Exactly why was gooey in the game? Or how was he graded?
KDL3 received mixed reception.
Due to only being in that game, briefly in KDL2, and as a trophy in Melee, he only received decent popularity, but the people who knew him liked him.
He doesn't fit very well in, due to not having limbs or any arms.
And although a custom moveset could be made up, he was a clone of Kirby in KDL3.
The only thing going for him is uniqueness.
Now, I am not requesting him to be out. I'm just asking why he was in.

As for who I would think would be better. Daroach from Squeak Squad.
He also received mixed reviews, but has quite a bit to work with, is somewhat unique, is pretty popular, I belive, and actually has limbs.
Again, I am NOT requesting Gooey out.
I'm just asking why he was in.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I would LOVE Daroach.

But I don't understand why there's Gooey, when there's Dark Matter (swordsman form), Bandana Dee (well, he wasn't available until recently, and even then, the game isn't out yet...), Knuckle Joe, Daroach, and even Rick the Hamster if you needed an ally to Kirby.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

Here's Gooey's recorded score (no explanations, sorry) along with some others that are available from the start of the game. These were done by me, Phantom, and Falcon8r:

Toad
Represenation: 5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 4.5
Uniqueness: 4.5

Total: 19/20 - SCORE 95

Gooey
Representation: 4.5
Popularity: 4
Viability: 4
Uniqueness: 5

Total: 17.5/20 - SCORE 88

Krystal
Representation: 3.5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 4
Uniqueness: 3.5

Total: 16/20 - SCORE 80

Waluigi
Representation: 3.5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 4.5
Uniqueness: 4.5

Total: 17.5/20 - SCORE 88

Mach Rider
Representation: 4.5
Popularity: 3.5
Viability: 4.5
Uniqueness: 5

Total: 17.5/20 - SCORE 88

Tails
Represenation: 5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 5
Uniqueness: 5

Total: 20/20 - SCORE 100 PERFECT

Ryu
Representation: 5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 5
Uniqueness: 5

Total: 20/20 - SCORE 100 PERFECT

Ristar
Representation: 5
Popularity: 4
Viability: 4.5
Uniqueness: 5

Total: 18.5/20 - SCORE 93

Bomberman
Representation: 4
Popularity: 4.5
Moveset potentail: 5
Uniquness: 4.5

Total: 18/20 - SCORE 90

As you can see, most starting newcomers have scores ranging from 88 to 93, only a few perfect scores are in there (Tails, Ryu, and Mega Man- I didn't show his).

I'll show you some unlockable scores, but only for confirmed characters:

Vaati
Representation: 4.5
Popularity: 4
Viability: 4.5
Uniquness: 5

Total: 18/20 - SCORE 90

Geno
Representation: 5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 5
Uniqueness: 5

Total 20/20 - SCORE 100 PERFECT

Unfortunately, that's all I will show. Most unlockable characters (all of them are newcomers) have scores from 95 (sometimes 93) to 100.

If I need to explain Gooey more, he really fits in as a classic and recognizable character. Another reason Gooey was added in was because Superstar Gang was currently on the roster and we needed soomething to balance heroes and villains, putting Meta Knight in the middle.

[El Maiz]

4.5 for reception?

I thought that DL3 wasn't very good.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

DL3 got mixed reviews because it was over-shadowed by Kirby Superstar.
He was also in Kirby's Dream Land 2, which got good reception. Gooey has also built himself up somehow to be a well known Kirby character.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Jul 5, 2011 9:55:53 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

Geno
Representation: 5
Popularity: 5
Viability: 5
Uniqueness: 5

Total 20/20 - SCORE 100 PERFECT

What. the. EFF?!?
The guy was in ONE game, and he wasn't even the main character. And his "popularity" is just a cult following.

I don't care that Geno is in this game, but giving him a BS score like that irks me.

As for Gooey, he had a minor role in Dream Land 2. Can't really count that for representation, as he doesn't really "represent" that game. The game he DOES represent is Dream Land 3, where he had an expansive role.
Knuckle Joe makes a better choice.

[Felipe_9595]

Guys, dont waste your words with him, is hard to discuss anything with a person who believes a cigarrete is the paper that contain tobacco.

And nop, error, there is a cameo of geno in a Mario&Luigi game

[PartisanDaw]

@golden: There are people who like Geno and give them WHIT love(?) Perfect. Me , for my part ,don't really care.I would give him :
Geno
Representation: 4 , Maro,nothing to tell you more.
Popularity: 2 for haters i belive, 3 for me.
Viability: 5
Uniqueness: 5

17/20 or 16/20

Eh?

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Jul 5, 2011 12:32:28 GMT -5 Felipe_9595 said:

Guys, dont waste your words with him, is hard to discuss anything with a person who believes a cigarrete is the paper that contain tobacco.

This is why your warning went up; due to trying to instigate a flame war.

And no, Geno was not the main character. It's not called Super Geno RPG, it's Super MARIO RPG. Geno may have been a big part of the plot, but he was by no means the main character.
And he does not deserve perfect scores.

Representation: He's from the Mario RPGs of Mario RPGs, so he gets some points for that (especially because there is no Mario RPG character in Crusade yet). But being another Mario character, and a minor one at that, considering that he wasn't the main character (Mario was, duh.) he loses points. So, at best, he gets a 3.
Popularity: Cult following. In all honesty, not many Mario fans (or even Super Mario RPG fans, as I found out. They often say Mallow is better.) care for Geno. But still; a cult following is STILL a method of popularity. 2.
Viability: "Capable of success or continuing effectiveness"? This shouldn't even be a category, as it's all a matter of personal belief. As such, I give him a 1, due to being overrated, and once he's in, no one will care about him anymore. The only reason people care for him now, is because they feel he is "so great" and not in Smash. If he was in Smash, no one would care.
Uniqueness: This is where Geno shines, due to being unique in what he is, and what he does. No one on the roster is a puppet brought to life by a magical star being that uses mulitiple forms of weapons. 5.

Thus: 11/20.

[PartisanDaw]

-.- No to start flame war , but Geno WASN'T the main character in SMRPG? Mario was.
Geno Is popular,but how positive? He have much Negative Votes.

Woah,Pupet whit arms? No. Every VERY GOOD pupet have arms.

I've stay whit 16/20.

[SmashKing201]

I will have to agree with Golden's grade on Geno, except I would drop his popularity to a 2 instead of 3. Reason why is because though he played a major role in one Mario game, he still a very minor character for the Mario series itself. Also, he is not a good rep for a 3rd party either since the developers of the Geno character don't even bother to use him since RPG. As a matter of fact, even Geno's 2nd appearance in a Mario game is so minor. Just a cameo appearance. To go from one of the main characters to being a cameo appearance for the same series really shows how un-important he is to the Mario series. And that cameo appearance was in a minor Mario game. He couldn't even be a main character in a minor game. Square Enix dont even use him for anything. To give him a 5 for representation is clearly a calculation error.

[DGN]

...This is not the Why geno should/shouldn't be in thread. Get out or back on topic.
I do not agree he SHOUlD receive a perfect 20, but something like an 18.5. He's unique. He's popular, but not too popular. He has some to work with. And he represents a great game, although wasn't the main character.
I BELIEVE when I graded him I gave him an 18.5.

...Now back on topic. >:U
DMX, I get most of your scores...except for Tails, really, but I won't get into that.
For Gooey, Representation should be dropped to a 4 IMO.
Popularity is more about 3.5.
I agree with 4 for viability and 5 for uniqueness.
that equals a 16.5.

And if you can. Grade Daroach plz. And use descipitions.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'll grade Daroach.

Representation: Represents one game in the Kirby series. 2.
Popularity: When people think of Kirby, they don't usually think of Daroach. 2.
Viability: This category is BS, therefore I won't use it.
Uniqueness: A mouse sorcerer. Very unique in what he is. The abilities he possesess are also unique. 5.

Total: 9/15

Geno's revised score (without Viability): 10/15.

Despite Daroach getting a lower score than Geno, I'm all for Daroach. One big thing that he has over Geno: HE IS A NINTENDO CHARACTER.

Now, Gooey's grade:

Representation: Represents one Kirby game, and has a cameo in another. 2.
Popularity: I RARELY hear anything about Gooey when it comes to Kirby. Daroach at least gets a few mentions. 1.
Uniqueness: 5. He's a blob. He'll never be in Smash on the grounds that Sakurai feels taht a fighter needs limbs, but Crusase isn't tied to that rule.

Total: 8/10

[DGN]

I think I'll grade Daroach, Gooey, and Geno:
Daroach.
Representation: Represents a Kirby game that received 60-80 in grades. 3.5
Popularity: Only appeared in Squeak Squad, without any cameos in anything else. However, he is an interesting character for who he is. 3
Viability: Nothing wrong with limbs. Floats, but as Mewtwo does that it's invalid. Has a lot of things to work with from his two boss fights, the other people of the squeak squad, etc. 4
Uniqueness: Read Golden't post. 5
Overall: 15.5
Gooey:
Representation: Represents a game that received mixed reviews. 3.5
Popularity: Similarly to Daroach, he was really only in one game but was popular from what he was from. Also had a Melee trophy. 3
Viability: Doesn't have any limbs. Although he can do everything kirby can do, considering special abilities and the like. 3.5
Uniqueness: Doesn't have any limbs. He can do everything Kirby can do. 4
Overall: 14
Geno:
Representation: Super Mario RPG, Geno's game, was received fantastically. At the same time, he represents Square Enix. 5
Uniqueness: As golden said, he's crazy unique. 5
Viability: He does have a lot to work with from his game, and from the moveset proposed from the sprite sheet, and his puppet-like nature. And he has limbs. 5
Popularity: It's rather mixed here. You either hate him or like him, but his game wasn't really well known for gamers these days. 3.
Overall: 18.

[El Maiz]

Super Mario RPG was neither Geno's game, nor does he represent it.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

Wait...Golden...Did you just grade someone's representation and give them a score based on how many games they represented? It's time you all learn how this works:

I'm going to use Geno as an example:

Representation: Super Mario RPG was nearly critically acclaimed (like games such as Chrono Trigger) on the SNES. The better a game is recieved, the higher the score for representation is.

Geno gets a 5 for this.

Popularity: Geno received mass popularity after the release of Super Mario RPG and has been heavily requested for smash since 2001. The more a character is familiar with video game fans, the higher popularity goes. This has nothing to do on how they are liked or not.

Geno, again, gets a 5 for this.

Viability: Geno has five special moves in his original game (all possible smash moves). Geno's body structure allows for plenty of possible A-Moves as well. Geno also has many sprite sheets to use for Smash Bros. Viability is based on what moves they could have, body structure, and spriting capabilities.

Geno gets a 5 for this.

Uniqueness: Geno does not take an appearance too similar to anyone else nor does he steal moves from other characters. Uniqueness is graded on how different a character is from everyone else.

Geno gets a 5 again.

Then you add up the numbers.

Total:20

Times it by 5

20 x 5 = 100

Geno receives a perfect score. I've been noticing that you guys merge categories together when you grade. Stick to one aspect at a time. For example, Generic said:

"Popularity: Only appeared in Squeak Squad, without any cameos in anything else. However, he is an interesting character for who he is. "

The last sentence clearly has nothing to do with the rest of this portion of the grading. In fact, none of this has anything to do with how his popularity should be (see why in the earlier parts of my post).

Oh I had to point this out:

"Super Mario RPG was neither Geno's game, nor does he represent it."

This is one of the stupidest posts I've seen on this site. Not to be rude, but it is. Characters represent games that they played a significant role in. For example, Toad would represent Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Wario's Woods, and the Mario Party games more than anything else. I thought how we defined representation was pretty obvious. Now, I'll grade Daroach:

Representation: Kirby: Squeak Squard is the only appearance we've seen for Daroach. However, it was given negative scores from 7.8's to 6's

Daroach gets a 3.5

Popularity: Only heavy Kirby fans know who Daroach is and what he does. I've seen a sprite sheet of him before and that's it. Honestly, most people don't know how the heck he is.

Daroach gets a 3.5

Moveset Potential: Daroach does a good amount of moves to use (Ice Beam, Teleport, Bombs...), but there are already characters in the game that have these moves. I also think Dark Daroach would be his Final Smash. There are the Squeakers, but Dedede already holds a move just like that.

He gets a 3.5

Uniqueness: Daroach does not look like anyone else or would feel similar to anyone else (maybe Mewtwo), but he doesn't have any of his own moves.

Daroach gets a 4

15.5/20 = 78


Sorry, but we don't accept characters under 80.

[El Maiz]

That was the stupidest post I've seen.

If characters represent games they played a major role in, then geno does not represent Super Mario RPG

[DGN]

*cracks fingers*

Jul 5, 2011 17:18:04 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

Wait...Golden...Did you just grade someone's representation and give them a score based on how many games they represented? It's time you all learn how this works:

I'm going to use Geno as an example:

Representation: Super Mario RPG was nearly critically acclaimed (like games such as Chrono Trigger) on the SNES. The better a game is recieved, the higher the score for representation is.

Geno gets a 5 for this.

Popularity: Geno received mass popularity after the release of Super Mario RPG and has been heavily requested for smash since 2001. The more a character is familiar with video game fans, the higher popularity goes. This has nothing to do on how they are liked or not. Great, explanations. So then. How is a character that appeared in one game with no appearance afterwards get a 5 in popularity? Modern gamers are likely to not have any idea who he is. This is definitely not a 5.

Geno, again, gets a 5 for this.

Viability: Geno has five special moves in his original game (all possible smash moves). Geno's body structure allows for plenty of possible A-Moves as well. Geno also has many sprite sheets to use for Smash Bros. Viability is based on what moves they could have, body structure, and spriting capabilities.

Geno gets a 5 for this.

Uniqueness: Geno does not take an appearance too similar to anyone else nor does he steal moves from other characters. Uniqueness is graded on how different a character is from everyone else.

Geno gets a 5 again.

Then you add up the numbers.

Total:20

Times it by 5

20 x 5 = 100

Geno receives a perfect score. I've been noticing that you guys merge categories together when you grade. Stick to one aspect at a time. For example, Generic said:

"Popularity: Only appeared in Squeak Squad, without any cameos in anything else. However, he is an interesting character for who he is. "

The last sentence clearly has nothing to do with the rest of this portion of the grading. In fact, none of this has anything to do with how his popularity should be (see why in the earlier parts of my post). Except for the fact that, due to how interesting he is, he can be liked better. However, now that you have explained that it isn't how the person is liked, it is invalid.

Oh I had to point this out:

"Super Mario RPG was neither Geno's game, nor does he represent it."

This is one of the stupidest posts I've seen on this site. Not to be rude, but it is. Characters represent games that they played a significant role in. For example, Toad would represent Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Wario's Woods, and the Mario Party games more than anything else. I thought how we defined representation was pretty obvious. You explained representation as this: "Think about what games they come from. Were they good games? Did you enjoy those games? You'll be reminded of those games when playing the character." This says nothing about how they were received by critics. It says how they were received by fans.

Now, I'll grade Daroach:

Representation: Kirby: Squeak Squard is the only appearance we've seen for Daroach. However, it was given negative scores from 7.8's to 6's

Daroach gets a 3.5IIRC, that's how I did it. No objections there.

Popularity: Only heavy Kirby fans know who Daroach is and what he does. I've seen a sprite sheet of him before and that's it. Honestly, most people don't know how the heck he is.

Daroach gets a 3.5 I forget if I put this as well, but I agree with it.

Moveset Potential: Daroach does a good amount of moves to use (Ice Beam, Teleport, Bombs...), but there are already characters in the game that have these moves. I also think Dark Daroach would be his Final Smash. There are the Squeakers, but Dedede already holds a move just like that.

He gets a 3.5Wait, what happened to Viability? Anyways, Moveset Potential is a ridiculous category IMO, but I do see your point about how he uses moves from someone else; wait, isn't that close to what you mentioned earlier? Mixing categories? You're mixing how unique-as in how independent he is in moves-he is with Moveset Potential.

Uniqueness: Daroach does not look like anyone else or would feel similar to anyone else (maybe Mewtwo), but he doesn't have any of his own moves.

Daroach gets a 4

15.5/20 = 78


Sorry, but we don't accept characters under 80.I gave him a 15.5 as well. This appears to be a perfect scoring for him, and accept that there are better characters, as I did with NiGHTS. I would, however, like you to add descriptions to Gooey's scores to show why he should be in. Thank you for your response.

Responses in Purple.
EDIT: Maiz, Geno played a huge role in SMRPG, playing a large part in the story, and was a playable character.

[El Maiz]

Could you do blue or yellow? Purple is hard to read.

[DGN]

I do purple because it's my favorite color, lol.
Just raise the light.

And read my edit.