SmashKing's SSB4 Roster

[SmashKing201]

Well, this is my roster. There are a lot of characters, but I will be trimming the fat as time goes by.

Mario series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Toad
Bowser Jr

Donkey Kong series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Yoshi series
Yoshi

Wario Ware/Land series
Wario

Legend of Zelda series
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Tingle

Metroid series
Samus
Ridley


Kid Icarus series
Pit
Medusa

Retro Characters
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Mr. Game & Watch
Balloon Fighter
Duck Hunt Dog


Kirby series
Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

Star Fox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

F-Zero series
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pokemon series
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer (Brawl)
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Meowth

Fire Emblem series
Marth
Ike
Roy

Mother/Earthbound series
Ness
Lucas
Porky

Pikmin series
Olimar

Animal Crossing series
Tom Nook

Legend of Starfy series
Starfy

Punch Out series
Little Mac

Nintendo/Advance/Batallion Wars series
Andy

Xenoblade series
Shulk

Golden Sun series
Isaac

Sin & Punishment series
Saki

Metal Gear series
Snake

Sonic the Hedgehog series
Sonic

Megaman series
Megaman

[Dettadeus]

Replace Meowth with Zoroark and I'll have no problems with it.
Golden proved that Meowth actually has nothing going for him besides popularity. Not to mention lacking a 5th gen rep is a HORRIBLE idea.

[SmashKing201]

Aug 12, 2011 12:46:49 GMT -5 Dettadeus said:

Replace Meowth with Zoroark and I'll have no problems with it.
Golden proved that Meowth actually has nothing going for him besides popularity. Not to mention lacking a 5th gen rep is a HORRIBLE idea.

Where did Golden prove this?

As for a 5th gen rep missing, I was back and forth between Meowth, Mewtwo, Lucario, & Zoroark. Then I thought to myself that Melee didn't have a 3rd gen rep as a playable character so what different would it make for SSB4 if it had the 5th gen without a playable rep?

[Dettadeus]

3rd gen didn't exist when Melee came out. >_>
If you meant Brawl, then it's because 4th gen was the newest during the later stages of development and the Pokemon Company apparently forced Sakurai to add Lucario in, threatening to not allow for any Pokemon to be in Brawl otherwise.

Also, this thread: ssbcforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=arcade&action=display&thread=526

[GoldenYuiitusin]

1. Adding BOTH Palutena and Medusa is much. Sakurai IS developing Uprising, but he does try to stay modest with his series.

2. Do you REALLY want to get me started on Krystal?

3. Having no 5th Gen is wrong. There is ALWAYS a current Gen rep. Having Meowth is one thing; having Meowth over Zoroark or Victini is another.

4. Sakurai said that AC won't get characters because it's a peaceful series.

5. Sakurai hates Starfy.

6. Japan does not care about Punch-Out.

7. Being only an avatar, Andy doesn't have much to offer. Also isn't too popular.

8. Mega Man is dead. Capcom would push for Ryu instead.

9. Sakurai said no Balloon Fighter on the basis that without balloons, he'd be useless.

10. Disturbing lack of Takamaru.

[SmashKing201]

So far, I pick 60 characters I feel should be on the roster. But I will cut 6 of them out to make 54. Hmm, who should it be.

Well, I will explain the choices that have been critiqued at this point.

@detta
Yea I meant, Brawl. Sorry for the error ;D

I did hear about Game Freak & wanting Lucario in Brawl, but didn't know they threaten to not have Pokemon in Smash if Lucario wasn't playable.

I picked Meowth for a reason. My reason is cause even though Sakurai doesn't want to really have anything based off the anime, I feel that the Pokemon series should be exempt from that. I say this cause the Pokemon empire would not be as big as it is if the anime wasn't so popular. And I think Meowth would be a good rep for that. Sure we have Pikachu, but to me it doesn't feel complete. Even Sakurai himself acknowledges Meowth as being a major Pokemon. Just read the bio of Meowth on the Brawl dojo.

About the Kid Icarus reps, I do agree that 3 is too much. I put in all 3 to make a complete 60 before I cut down the roster little by little. I personally feel that Pelutena should come in before Medusa mainly cause I feel that a partner/sidekick should be in before the villain. I will defiantly remove one rep or might just get rid of both Pelutena & Medusa since Kid Icarus is not in real need of a rep like Metroid & F-Zero does.

Yes, I have read all of the reasons on why Krystal should not be in SSB4. Some of the issues I agree on while some I second guess on. But, despite the reviews the Star Fox games have gotten, Krystal still brought in something new to the series. I feel that is very important.

Now I agree a 5th gen is needed to introduce something relevant. Though I'm still back and forth on who should go. But also, this will possibly mean I will have to cut out a Mario rep as well to make it all even.

As for the Animal Crossing rep, actually Sakurai said that he didn't add them in cause they are not fighters. I think Sakurai is being a hypocrite with that statement. If they are not suppose to be fighters, then why is R.O.B. playable? From the research I done, R.O.B. has never fought until Brawl. So why should Animal Crossing be excluded? On top of that, if Animal Crossing characters are meant to be peaceful, then why is Tom Nook so bossy & Mr. Resetti is such an @$$? And....if Animal Crossing characters are to peaceful to be in Smash, then why is Mr. Resetti (& Starfy) one of the only assist trophies that gets attacked. Not to mention that he insults the players and characters.

Though Sakurai may possibly dislike Starfy, that is just his opinion against millions. Starfy is well liked and received in both US & Japan. It is personal bias of him to hate a character for being similar to style as Kirby, a series he started. I'm sure Sakurai won't be selfish enough to let a personal thought get in the way of a professional decision. He usually states that he likes to be fair and modest, but he is going against his own words simply by excluding Starfy cause of his own personal feelings.

As for Little Mac, Japan may not be Mac's biggest fanbase, but should a character seriously be out of question over that? Sure its Sakurai who is making the game, but Pokemon demanding Lucario to be playable and Nintendo owning 70 something percent of Sora LTD stocks proves that Sakurai and the Japan fanbase don't have full control and the only say in this situation.

I pick Andy because I feel that Nintendo Wars, being the longest running series to not have a rep in Smash should have a playable character by this time. Ok so the Nintendo Wars series was never as popular as many series we know of, but neither was Mother, and to a lesser extent F-Zero. And Andy is a mechanic, he has plenty of tools to work with. If not Andy, then why not Herman or Betty? If an avatar is not acceptable then why not an Infantry?

As for Megaman, I agree in many areas of this issue, but obviously the fans are pulling more for Megaman than Ryu. And we know that Nintendo don't always ignore their fans. I dont know, this is back and forth for me with this situation.

With the Balloon Fighter issue, I believe that Sakurai is not being as open-minded and lacking creativity with this issue. Remember, this was 11 years ago when he said this, maybe things have changed.

Now about Takamaru not being on my roster. I like Takamaru and all, but I'm beginning to feel he is starting to become a bit over-rated. I think ever since Samurai Warriors 3, everyone just been pushing for him. But here is where I think this effects Takamaru. His games were poorly received, yea and this was in Japan. Also, his series has done nothing for Nintendo in the long run. He only had one game and it wasn't popular. And the part in my opinion that hurts him just as much is that his game was only available on Famicon. Popularity was so poor, they decided not to release it outside of Japan. And also, have you noticed that all retro characters playable in Smash Bros have either appeared on both NES & Famicon or (in Mr. G&W's case) on a handheld worldwide? Sure I have Lip on my roster, but the thing with her is that her games have actually done something for Nintendo in the long run by having copycats and successors with the Puzzle League series. Takamaru did nothing for Nintendo. The only thing he has on his resume other than cameo appearances is that he is Nintendo's first Samurai, but that title itself is nothing special either.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Aug 12, 2011 14:33:10 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

So far, I pick 60 characters I feel should be on the roster. But I will cut 6 of them out to make 54. Hmm, who should it be.

Well, I will explain the choices that have been critiqued at this point.

@detta
Yea I meant, Brawl. Sorry for the error ;D

I did hear about Game Freak & wanting Lucario in Brawl, but didn't know they threaten to not have Pokemon in Smash if Lucario wasn't playable.

I picked Meowth for a reason. My reason is cause even though Sakurai doesn't want to really have anything based off the anime, I feel that the Pokemon series should be exempt from that. I say this cause the Pokemon empire would not be as big as it is if the anime wasn't so popular. And I think Meowth would be a good rep for that. Sure we have Pikachu, but to me it doesn't feel complete. Even Sakurai himself acknowledges Meowth as being a major Pokemon. Just read the bio of Meowth on the Brawl dojo. He really doesn't. He says "it's considered a major Pokemon", which implies that he knows others feel that way, but he doesn't share this feeling. This is just how I interpret his tone. And what I see here is "Sakurai doesn't want to focus on the anime. TOO BAD. I say it should be focused on." The ONLY thing Meowth has going for it now is the anime, and that alone doesn't cut it. Hell, none of the Pokemon in Smash were added soley on the anime. Pikachu was the most popular Pokemon, Jigglypuff was the 2nd. Mewtwo was added because he was planned for 64. Pichu was added to beef up the Roster. Pokemon Trainer was added to introduce a new gimmick. Lucario was added because GameFreak wanted him in. Now at this point in time, had Jigglypuff not been in 64, she wouldn't be in now, as she holds little relevance to Pokemon's popularity at this point in time. To be honest, I wouldn't care if Meowth was in your Roster if you DIDN'T leave out a 5th Gen. Representative.

About the Kid Icarus reps, I do agree that 3 is too much. I put in all 3 to make a complete 60 before I cut down the roster little by little. I personally feel that Pelutena should come in before Medusa mainly cause I feel that a partner/sidekick should be in before the villain. I will defiantly remove one rep or might just get rid of both Pelutena & Medusa since Kid Icarus is not in real need of a rep like Metroid & F-Zero does. Advice: Keep Medusa, scrap Palutena.

Yes, I have read all of the reasons on why Krystal should not be in SSB4. Some of the issues I agree on while some I second guess on. But, despite the reviews the Star Fox games have gotten, Krystal still brought in something new to the series. I feel that is very important. Yeah. She brought HATRED. Do you REALLY think that's deserving? StarFox went downhill in the eyes of fans since she debuted. Also, StarFox DOES NOT NEED 4 CHARACTERS BEFORE KIRBY OR METROID.

Now I agree a 5th gen is needed to introduce something relevant. Though I'm still back and forth on who should go. But also, this will possibly mean I will have to cut out a Mario rep as well to make it all even. If you replace a Pokemon with a 5th Gen, why would you need to remove a Mario rep? Replace Meowth. All he has going for him is the anime and that is not enough to warrant a spot.

As for the Animal Crossing rep, actually Sakurai said that he didn't add them in cause they are not fighters. I think Sakurai is being a hypocrite with that statement. If they are not suppose to be fighters, then why is R.O.B. playable? From the research I done, R.O.B. has never fought until Brawl. So why should Animal Crossing be excluded? On top of that, if Animal Crossing characters are meant to be peaceful, then why is Tom Nook so bossy & Mr. Resetti is such an @$$? And....if Animal Crossing characters are to peaceful to be in Smash, then why is Mr. Resetti (& Starfy) one of the only assist trophies that gets attacked. Not to mention that he insults the players and characters. Why do you think Resetti was MADE into an Assist? Because he's the only ideal choice for a fighter. But even then, he is just a side character, so he wouldn't get in before a Villager or Tom Nook. And it's not hypocritical, as R.O.B. is a peripheral, not a character. Nintendo can do what they WANT with R.O.B., as evident by making him a giant enemy in a WarioWare game based on StarFox, a battle kart driver in Mario Kart DS, a fighter in Brawl, a relic in Pikmin 2, etc.

Though Sakurai may possibly dislike Starfy, that is just his opinion against millions. Starfy is well liked and received in both US & Japan. It is personal bias of him to hate a character for being similar to style as Kirby, a series he started. I'm sure Sakurai won't be selfish enough to let a personal thought get in the way of a professional decision. He usually states that he likes to be fair and modest, but he is going against his own words simply by excluding Starfy cause of his own personal feelings. If he's so well received, how come very few people want him in the Japan boards?

As for Little Mac, Japan may not be Mac's biggest fanbase, but should a character seriously be out of question over that? Sure its Sakurai who is making the game, but Pokemon demanding Lucario to be playable and Nintendo owning 70 something percent of Sora LTD stocks proves that Sakurai and the Japan fanbase don't have full control and the only say in this situation. It's logic. They aren't going to add a character who's only popular in the Western area into a game made in Japan.

I pick Andy because I feel that Nintendo Wars, being the longest running series to not have a rep in Smash should have a playable character by this time. Ok so the Nintendo Wars series was never as popular as many series we know of, but neither was Mother, and to a lesser extent F-Zero. And Andy is a mechanic, he has plenty of tools to work with. If not Andy, then why not Herman or Betty? If an avatar is not acceptable then why not an Infantry?No. Just no.

As for Megaman, I agree in many areas of this issue, but obviously the fans are pulling more for Megaman than Ryu. And we know that Nintendo don't always ignore their fans. I dont know, this is back and forth for me with this situation. Sure, NINTENDO may be willing, but would CAPCOM? Or would they rather use a character from a series that sells, like Ryu from Street Fighter?

With the Balloon Fighter issue, I believe that Sakurai is not being as open-minded and lacking creativity with this issue. Remember, this was 11 years ago when he said this, maybe things have changed. Yeah, and maybe Godzilla will be added into the game. Bear in mind, that Retro characters aren't added for the sake of being Retro, save for the Ice Climbers. G&W was to honor Gunpei Yokoi. Pit was added due to fan demand, as well as Sakurai may have been planning on reviving the series for a while. R.O.B. is a Nintendo icon. Takamaru is a character Sakurai likes, has fan demand, and a recent guest appearance with a mode dedicated to him and his game.

Now about Takamaru not being on my roster. I like Takamaru and all, but I'm beginning to feel he is starting to become a bit over-rated. I think ever since Samurai Warriors 3, everyone just been pushing for him. But here is where I think this effects Takamaru. His games were poorly received, yea and this was in Japan. Also, his series has done nothing for Nintendo in the long run. He only had one game and it wasn't popular. And the part in my opinion that hurts him just as much is that his game was only available on Famicon. Popularity was so poor, they decided not to release it outside of Japan. And also, have you noticed that all retro characters playable in Smash Bros have either appeared on both NES & Famicon or (in Mr. G&W's case) on a handheld worldwide? Sure I have Lip on my roster, but the thing with her is that her games have actually done something for Nintendo in the long run by having copycats and successors with the Puzzle League series. Takamaru did nothing for Nintendo. The only thing he has on his resume other than cameo appearances is that he is Nintendo's first Samurai, but that title itself is nothing special either. I would LOVE to see your sources for how his game was poorly recieved. I honestly think you're making this up. And I honestly believe that you're making up that "it wasn't released outside of Japan because it wasn't popular". And having copycats doesn't mean jack squat. The reason there are copycats is because that was the only way Nintendo could sell the damn series to Americans as they would take one look at the fairy characters and pass it off. That's why they had to slap on series like Pokemon and Mario, and labeling it as a Tetris game to strike interest. If you noticed, the Americanized versions never reached Japan's shores. And even in Japan, latest games in the series don't even HAVE the fairies. So much for "important to Nintendo". You are also one to talk about overrated as you have Meowth and Krystal.

Responses.

I am now in full debate mode.

[SmashKing201]

Aug 12, 2011 20:48:03 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

Aug 12, 2011 14:33:10 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

So far, I pick 60 characters I feel should be on the roster. But I will cut 6 of them out to make 54. Hmm, who should it be.

Well, I will explain the choices that have been critiqued at this point.

@detta
Yea I meant, Brawl. Sorry for the error ;D

I did hear about Game Freak & wanting Lucario in Brawl, but didn't know they threaten to not have Pokemon in Smash if Lucario wasn't playable.

I picked Meowth for a reason. My reason is cause even though Sakurai doesn't want to really have anything based off the anime, I feel that the Pokemon series should be exempt from that. I say this cause the Pokemon empire would not be as big as it is if the anime wasn't so popular. And I think Meowth would be a good rep for that. Sure we have Pikachu, but to me it doesn't feel complete. Even Sakurai himself acknowledges Meowth as being a major Pokemon. Just read the bio of Meowth on the Brawl dojo. He really doesn't. He says "it's considered a major Pokemon", which implies that he knows others feel that way, but he doesn't share this feeling. This is just how I interpret his tone. And what I see here is "Sakurai doesn't want to focus on the anime. TOO BAD. I say it should be focused on." The ONLY thing Meowth has going for it now is the anime, and that alone doesn't cut it. Hell, none of the Pokemon in Smash were added soley on the anime. Pikachu was the most popular Pokemon, Jigglypuff was the 2nd. Mewtwo was added because he was planned for 64. Pichu was added to beef up the Roster. Pokemon Trainer was added to introduce a new gimmick. Lucario was added because GameFreak wanted him in. Now at this point in time, had Jigglypuff not been in 64, she wouldn't be in now, as she holds little relevance to Pokemon's popularity at this point in time. To be honest, I wouldn't care if Meowth was in your Roster if you DIDN'T leave out a 5th Gen. Representative.

About the Kid Icarus reps, I do agree that 3 is too much. I put in all 3 to make a complete 60 before I cut down the roster little by little. I personally feel that Pelutena should come in before Medusa mainly cause I feel that a partner/sidekick should be in before the villain. I will defiantly remove one rep or might just get rid of both Pelutena & Medusa since Kid Icarus is not in real need of a rep like Metroid & F-Zero does. Advice: Keep Medusa, scrap Palutena.

Yes, I have read all of the reasons on why Krystal should not be in SSB4. Some of the issues I agree on while some I second guess on. But, despite the reviews the Star Fox games have gotten, Krystal still brought in something new to the series. I feel that is very important. Yeah. She brought HATRED. Do you REALLY think that's deserving? StarFox went downhill in the eyes of fans since she debuted. Also, StarFox DOES NOT NEED 4 CHARACTERS BEFORE KIRBY OR METROID.

Now I agree a 5th gen is needed to introduce something relevant. Though I'm still back and forth on who should go. But also, this will possibly mean I will have to cut out a Mario rep as well to make it all even. If you replace a Pokemon with a 5th Gen, why would you need to remove a Mario rep? Replace Meowth. All he has going for him is the anime and that is not enough to warrant a spot.

As for the Animal Crossing rep, actually Sakurai said that he didn't add them in cause they are not fighters. I think Sakurai is being a hypocrite with that statement. If they are not suppose to be fighters, then why is R.O.B. playable? From the research I done, R.O.B. has never fought until Brawl. So why should Animal Crossing be excluded? On top of that, if Animal Crossing characters are meant to be peaceful, then why is Tom Nook so bossy & Mr. Resetti is such an @$$? And....if Animal Crossing characters are to peaceful to be in Smash, then why is Mr. Resetti (& Starfy) one of the only assist trophies that gets attacked. Not to mention that he insults the players and characters. Why do you think Resetti was MADE into an Assist? Because he's the only ideal choice for a fighter. But even then, he is just a side character, so he wouldn't get in before a Villager or Tom Nook. And it's not hypocritical, as R.O.B. is a peripheral, not a character. Nintendo can do what they WANT with R.O.B., as evident by making him a giant enemy in a WarioWare game based on StarFox, a battle kart driver in Mario Kart DS, a fighter in Brawl, a relic in Pikmin 2, etc.

Though Sakurai may possibly dislike Starfy, that is just his opinion against millions. Starfy is well liked and received in both US & Japan. It is personal bias of him to hate a character for being similar to style as Kirby, a series he started. I'm sure Sakurai won't be selfish enough to let a personal thought get in the way of a professional decision. He usually states that he likes to be fair and modest, but he is going against his own words simply by excluding Starfy cause of his own personal feelings. If he's so well received, how very few people want him in the Japan boards?

As for Little Mac, Japan may not be Mac's biggest fanbase, but should a character seriously be out of question over that? Sure its Sakurai who is making the game, but Pokemon demanding Lucario to be playable and Nintendo owning 70 something percent of Sora LTD stocks proves that Sakurai and the Japan fanbase don't have full control and the only say in this situation. It's logic. They aren't going to add a character who's only popular in the Western area into a game made in Japan.

I pick Andy because I feel that Nintendo Wars, being the longest running series to not have a rep in Smash should have a playable character by this time. Ok so the Nintendo Wars series was never as popular as many series we know of, but neither was Mother, and to a lesser extent F-Zero. And Andy is a mechanic, he has plenty of tools to work with. If not Andy, then why not Herman or Betty? If an avatar is not acceptable then why not an Infantry?

As for Megaman, I agree in many areas of this issue, but obviously the fans are pulling more for Megaman than Ryu. And we know that Nintendo don't always ignore their fans. I dont know, this is back and forth for me with this situation. Sure, NINTENDO may be willing, but would CAPCOM? Or would they rather use a character from a series that sells, like Ryu from Street Fighter?

With the Balloon Fighter issue, I believe that Sakurai is not being as open-minded and lacking creativity with this issue. Remember, this was 11 years ago when he said this, maybe things have changed. Yeah, and maybe Godzilla will be added into the game. Bear in mind, that Retro characters aren't added for the sake of being Retro, save for the Ice Climbers. G&W was to honor Gunpei Yokoi. Pit was added due to fan demand, as well as Sakurai may have been planning on reviving the series for a while. R.O.B. is a Nintendo icon. Takamaru is a character Sakurai likes, has fan demand, and a recent guest appearance with a mode dedicated to him and his game.

Now about Takamaru not being on my roster. I like Takamaru and all, but I'm beginning to feel he is starting to become a bit over-rated. I think ever since Samurai Warriors 3, everyone just been pushing for him. But here is where I think this effects Takamaru. His games were poorly received, yea and this was in Japan. Also, his series has done nothing for Nintendo in the long run. He only had one game and it wasn't popular. And the part in my opinion that hurts him just as much is that his game was only available on Famicon. Popularity was so poor, they decided not to release it outside of Japan. And also, have you noticed that all retro characters playable in Smash Bros have either appeared on both NES & Famicon or (in Mr. G&W's case) on a handheld worldwide? Sure I have Lip on my roster, but the thing with her is that her games have actually done something for Nintendo in the long run by having copycats and successors with the Puzzle League series. Takamaru did nothing for Nintendo. The only thing he has on his resume other than cameo appearances is that he is Nintendo's first Samurai, but that title itself is nothing special either. I would LOVE to see your sources for how his game was poorly recieved. I honestly think you're making this up. And I honestly believe that you're making up that "it wasn't released outside of Japan because it wasn't popular". And having copycats doesn't mean jack squat. The reason there are copycats is because that was the only way Nintendo could sell the damn series to Americans as they would take one look at the fairy characters and pass it off. That's why they had to slap on series like Pokemon and Mario, and labeling it as a Tetris game to strike interest. If you noticed, the Americanized versions never reached Japan's shores. And even in Japan, latest games in the series don't even HAVE the fairies. So much for "important to Nintendo". You are also one to talk about overrated as you have Meowth and Krystal.

Responses.

I am now in full debate mode.

@golden. So, you want a debate? lol



Ok, so the issue of Meowth being a major Pokemon is pretty debatable, depending in what area of the Pokemon franchise you look at it. But here is a question about Pikachu. How was Pikachu popular without the anime when in R/B your starters where Bulbasaur, Charmander, & Squirtle? Pikachu didn't have any type of role in the game that could have boosted its popularity. Pikachu didn't have a special role in the game until Pokemon Yellow, which was released after the anime. Same issue with Pichu. Stuff like this makes me believe that the anime plays an important key role when adding Pokemon in Smash.

Also, I am considering adding Zoroark as a new rep cause it seems like its most likely needed in some way. I can remove Meowth, but then I realize something. Mewtwo, Lucario, & Zoroark all on the same roster doesn't sound like the best idea. Though they are unique in their own ways, I feel that all 3 of them in 1 roster would not be best since they resemble similar styles. Mewtwo is not going nowhere since he is highly demanded. So im kinda leaning towards removing Lucario for Zoroark since it seems as if he was added to promote the 4th gen during his time on the roster.

Well, I can confirm this. There will defiantly be 1 rep going. Kid Icarus was just brought back to life, so why should it have 3 reps so soon? Plus, we are not promise that this series will continue to run. Never know if this might be just a one time thing to bring back Kid Icarus. Both are good choices in my view. I would go with Medusa, but I will see what potentials Pelutena can have that will not make her too similar to Pit. Pretty much I dont want to jump into conclusion and just axe her out without seeing whats available first.

What hatred did she really bring? She was one of the most requested characters for Smash Bros Brawl. This was before Wolf was revealed as the newcomer to. Also, how did one character ruin the entire series for such a long period of time? I think it was the direction they went with the series and breaking out of their origins that ruined the series.

As for the balance between the Pokemon & Mario rep. That was my fault, I miss calculated. ;D

And what makes Mr. Resetti an ideal choice of a fighter out of the rest? Is it cause he has an axe? Not putting words in your mouth, just hoping that is not part of what will be used in debate to support Resetti. And the thing about R.O.B. being in WarioWare, isn't that giant R.O.B. based on him? Not the actual R.O.B.

As for Starfy, obviously he will not get tons of support in those boards or mentioned as much when many are busy debating between Zoroark/Victini, Megaman/Ryu, etc.

Well, if they are not going to add in a character if they are only popular in the West, I doubt they will say no if it was popular in both Western & PAL region. I am trying to look up the sales on the PAL region, but I am having a hard time looking for it.

You didn't comment on my 2nd comment on Nintendo Wars

True, it all depends on Capcom also. Can't argue with that.

The Ice Climbers were added to be the 1st retro rep introduced cause they had hammers they can use and also the idea of the double duo gimmick.

Yea, Pit was added for fan demands. Balloon Fighter is also getting fan demands. He is pretty much up their with Takamaru & Sukapon. Out of all 3 of them, Balloon Fighter is the only one to have his series released outside of Japan and appeared in both NES & Famicon. And if you noticed, we never had a Famicon/Japan retro character in Smash. Balloon Fight has more references than both of Takamaru & Sukapon's games in other games.

According to a statement you provided in a similar thread, Sakurai said he likes Takamaru, but would consider him as a possibility of being playable if his series were to release another game. We are yet to hear anything about a new game from Takamaru. So how does that help him?

No, I am not making it up. I actually made the attempt to find a source. Well, I know it is not the most reliable source, but for now I can only provide Wikipedia as the only source of Takamaru's game sales. I am looking for more sources, but I will have to keep looking. I will provide more sources as I continue. As for his game never releasing outside of Japan due to poor sales is only common sense. Why would Nintendo put out a game outside of Japan that had poor sales?

As for Lip, I really didn't think of it that way. It could be possible. Though we can't confirm that it would not be successful if it had went overseas. So I guess Lip is out the question and would only be reasonable when ideas run short on who should be the next retro. But also, may I remind you that Panel De Pon is the 1st game of the Puzzle series. You may not acknowledge it as important to Nintendo, but it is something good for the game's resume.

About Meowth & Krystal. Millions of Nintendo fans know Meowth & Krystal while mainly Smash Bros, Samurai Warriors, & Famicon fans recognize Takamaru. That is the difference from Takamaru & the 2 mentioned above.

On a side note, I realize I forgot all about Isaac & Saki. They will defiantly be added in once this roster gets the cut down.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Aug 12, 2011 23:36:42 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

Aug 12, 2011 20:48:03 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

Responses.

I am now in full debate mode.

@golden. So, you want a debate? lol



Ok, so the issue of Meowth being a major Pokemon is pretty debatable, depending in what area of the Pokemon franchise you look at it. But here is a question about Pikachu. How was Pikachu popular without the anime when in R/B your starters where Bulbasaur, Charmander, & Squirtle? Pikachu didn't have any type of role in the game that could have boosted its popularity. Pikachu didn't have a special role in the game until Pokemon Yellow, which was released after the anime. Same issue with Pichu. Stuff like this makes me believe that the anime plays an important key role when adding Pokemon in Smash. You clearly don't understand. Pikachu was added in the anime soley for his surprising popularity in the games. Pikachu's design appealed to the Japanese audience, as did Jigglypuff, who again, did not gain that popularity from the anime. Meowth was made a regular to counter on the fact that Pikachu is a mouse. Sure, it didn't have a great ROLE in the games, but it was still frigging popular for who knows what. It could've happened to any Pokemon, and it just so happened to be Pikachu.

Also, I am considering adding Zoroark as a new rep cause it seems like its most likely needed in some way. I can remove Meowth, but then I realize something. Mewtwo, Lucario, & Zoroark all on the same roster doesn't sound like the best idea. Though they are unique in their own ways, I feel that all 3 of them in 1 roster would not be best since they resemble similar styles. Mewtwo is not going nowhere since he is highly demanded. So im kinda leaning towards removing Lucario for Zoroark since it seems as if he was added to promote the 4th gen during his time on the roster. He was added because GameFreak wanted him. And given his fanbase (which is far larger than say PICHU'S), Lucario is not likely to go anywhere. And by this logic, Fox, Falco, and Wolf should not be in the same game again. To replace a logical choice (Lucario) instead of an illogical one (Meowth) shows bias. And before you preach to me about bias, note that a crapton of characters I want, I sacrificed for logic.

Well, I can confirm this. There will defiantly be 1 rep going. Kid Icarus was just brought back to life, so why should it have 3 reps so soon? Plus, we are not promise that this series will continue to run. Never know if this might be just a one time thing to bring back Kid Icarus. Both are good choices in my view. I would go with Medusa, but I will see what potentials Pelutena can have that will not make her too similar to Pit. Pretty much I dont want to jump into conclusion and just axe her out without seeing whats available first. She just acts as a guide. This and nothing more.

What hatred did she really bring? She was one of the most requested characters for Smash Bros Brawl. This was before Wolf was revealed as the newcomer to. Also, how did one character ruin the entire series for such a long period of time? I think it was the direction they went with the series and breaking out of their origins that ruined the series. Don't give me that crap, she was NOT one of the most requested. That would go to Sonic, Dedede, Ridley, Mega Man, and possibly Diddy Kong. Krystal was nowhere NEAR their levels. And if you start to quote the list where Dedede has 5, Ridley, Geno, etc. have 4, Krystal has 3, I want to let you know, this was just how many times Sakurai mentioned the characters. This was no indincation of who he was adding. Case in point, Sakurai even said he didn't know who Krystal was when he started on Brawl. She is also not liked for being only there to cater to furries, as well as being only a damsel in distress (Adventures), side character (Assault), and source of a crapton of drama (Command). And beleive you me, more people in Japan wanted Wolf than Krystal. His popularity spiked after Assault.

As for the balance between the Pokemon & Mario rep. That was my fault, I miss calculated. ;D

And what makes Mr. Resetti an ideal choice of a fighter out of the rest? Is it cause he has an axe? Not putting words in your mouth, just hoping that is not part of what will be used in debate to support Resetti. And the thing about R.O.B. being in WarioWare, isn't that giant R.O.B. based on him? Not the actual R.O.B. He's the only one who would actually be willing to fight. He's a rage-filled mole. He even brags on how he'd kick the other character's ***es in Brawl, despite being non-canon. I don't support Resetti, but if there's any character suited to be a fighter, it'd be him. And you want to play "actual R.O.B."? Fine then. Brawl R.O.B. is not the actual R.O.B. MKDS R.O.B. is not the actual R.O.B. You know where the actual R.O.B. is? On display at a game store I go to. He's an EFFing peripheral. Therefore, in games, Nintendo can do what they want with R.O.B., despite them not being the "actual" R.O.B.

As for Starfy, obviously he will not get tons of support in those boards or mentioned as much when many are busy debating between Zoroark/Victini, Megaman/Ryu, etc. You don't pay attention. They don't care for Vicitni or Ryu. They want Zoroark and Mega Man. Were you NOT reading the topic I made?

Well, if they are not going to add in a character if they are only popular in the West, I doubt they will say no if it was popular in both Western & PAL region. I am trying to look up the sales on the PAL region, but I am having a hard time looking for it. Don't bother. Punch-Out has been said to have all it's popularity in the West.

You didn't comment on my 2nd comment on Nintendo Wars Check the edit, which was made before this post. Granted, all I did say was "No. Just no.", but that's because I don't want to get into that. It'd make me tear the hairs off my head.

True, it all depends on Capcom also. Can't argue with that.

The Ice Climbers were added to be the 1st retro rep introduced cause they had hammers they can use and also the idea of the double duo gimmick. This may be true, but you have to remember Sakurai was specifically choosing a NES Rep and went down a list before he decided on the Ice Climbers.

Yea, Pit was added for fan demands. Balloon Fighter is also getting fan demands. He is pretty much up their with Takamaru & Sukapon. Out of all 3 of them, Balloon Fighter is the only one to have his series released outside of Japan and appeared in both NES & Famicon. And if you noticed, we never had a Famicon/Japan retro character in Smash. Balloon Fight has more references than both of Takamaru & Sukapon's games in other games. Balloon Fighter and Sukapon don't NEARLY have as much fan demand. And Sakurai said no to both already while he is fine with Takamaru. Out of the 3, only one has an actual chance.

According to a statement you provided in a similar thread, Sakurai said he likes Takamaru, but would consider him as a possibility of being playable if his series were to release another game. We are yet to hear anything about a new game from Takamaru. So how does that help him?

No, I am not making it up. I actually made the attempt to find a source. Well, I know it is not the most reliable source, but for now I can only provide Wikipedia as the only source of Takamaru's game sales. I am looking for more sources, but I will have to keep looking. I will provide more sources as I continue. As for his game never releasing outside of Japan due to poor sales is only common sense. Why would Nintendo put out a game outside of Japan that had poor sales? I don't know, why don't you ask Ike? Now, quoting Wikipedia: "The release was initially scheduled to coincide with the release of the FDS itself, but setbacks in development caused it to be released much later, contributing to its relative lack of popularity." Delays were what caused it's lack of popularity. Especially with this next quote: "Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, and Konami's Castlevania were also released for the FDS in the same year, but Nazo no Murasame-jô failed to achieve the same sort of commercial success." Had it been released on the same day as the Disk System, you can sure bet that the series would have been more popular. But that's not the case. Instead, it had to compete with frigging Zelda, Metroid, and Castlevania, which came before it. That's the only reason it did poor; other games were much more popular at the time of release. However, why would a poor selling game get a GBA port, a Wii port, and a 3DS port? And a mode dedicated to it in a 3rd Party title? And you know what else? Why would a poor selling game spawn a television drama? Has Panel de Pon or Duck Hunt done something like THAT?

As for Lip, I really didn't think of it that way. It could be possible. Though we can't confirm that it would not be successful if it had went overseas. So I guess Lip is out the question and would only be reasonable when ideas run short on who should be the next retro. But also, may I remind you that Panel De Pon is the 1st game of the Puzzle series. You may not acknowledge it as important to Nintendo, but it is something good for the game's resume. First Puzzle game that technically never left Japan. Remakes involving Mario and Pokemon were made instead. Also about Lip, Sakurai doesn't want her because of her skirt issue. This is due to her being a little girl, and not wanting any pedophiliac problems. Otherwise, the game would be banned in certain countries.

About Meowth & Krystal. Millions of Nintendo fans know Meowth & Krystal while mainly Smash Bros, Samurai Warriors, & Famicon fans recognize Takamaru. That is the difference from Takamaru & the 2 mentioned above. Still overrated because Krystal is a nobody and Meowth is only important in the anime.

On a side note, I realize I forgot all about Isaac & Saki. They will defiantly be added in once this roster gets the cut down. Japan doesn't care much for Golden Sun either. But they do care for Sin & Punishment, so go ahead and add Saki.

[SmashKing201]

1. Understandable now on how Pikachu got its popularity. Would like to see some sources for this, but Pikachu is not the main focus right now. But also, Meowth indeed had some important or special role in the gaming series, even though it was not in the main series. Remember he had bigger roles in the spin-offs as well. There was a special card of Meowth in the Pokemon Trading Card game, appeared as part of Team Rocket in Pokemon Puzzle League, he was one of the playable characters in the Mystery Dungeon series, etc. Even though some may be based on anime, to say he never had any bigger roles than the ones in the major Pokemon games is false.

2. Well, im convince on the logic of the 3 Pokemon compared to the 3 Star Fox reps. Well, on what Pokemon I should cut is not going to be an easy one and stays undecided for now. But here is one thing that comes to mind, if Lucario had not been demanded by Game Freak to Sakurai and the original plan was for 5 Mario & 5 Pokemon reps, who you think would have gotten that final spot for the Pokemon series?

3. Pelutena is actually more than just Pit's guide during his quest. Pelutena is the reason that Pit is even on this mission to save Skyworld. Remember, that the whole story of the Kid Icarus series is that it is a war between Pelutena & Medusa. Though Pit is the playable character, he is Pelutena's choice of leading the army. Easy way to say this is that Pit is Pelutena's pawn in the game. Now this is not saying that Pit is less important, just saying that Pelutena's role is far bigger than just being Pit's guidance.

4. We all knew that poll was not who Sakurai was possibly adding. We knew that for a fact. Krystal didn't get the most request, but she still had a well received number of request. And speaking of well received, I still wonder about how could Krystal's games even fail in the series. The games she was in still got well-received reviews by critiques alike. Hell, Star Fox 64, Star Fox Adventure, & Star Fox Assault are listed as part of the Nintendo Player's Choice line. And 2 out of 3 of those games where some of Krystal's biggest games to date. Adventure being her debut and Assault being how she took Peppy's place as a pilot. The main issue with the Star Fox games that featured Krystal where that there was less origins of the early Star Fox games. Being that Fox belongs in the Arwings. That is the biggest complaint of the later series, not the actual character.

5. The R.O.B. issue I actually agree with so moving on. I don't support Resetti either. But also, remember Phoenix Wright is planned for UMvsC 3 and he is not a fighter in any way what so ever. Sure that is a different game and not Smash, but to eliminate Tom Nook for not fighting I disagree on.

6. As for Starfy, though the chances might be slim cause of Sakurai's dislike, I don't think he should be label as a character with no possibility so soon. And remember, that site is just one poll and one area of the fanbase which is Japan. We can't just say Starfy is not well-liked overall if only one fanbase is putting in their 2 cent.

7. About the source of Little Mac's popularity. It has me curious so I will see what I can find anyways and let you know what turns out.

8. Yes, Sakurai went down a list of potential NES rep before going with the Ice Climbers. Sakurai said Balloon Fighter can only use balloons, he couldn't figure out ways to make Excitebiker & Mach Rider jump or even fight, and Urban Champion couldn't do anything other than punch. Don't remember if there were other retros he considered but that is what I remember from the top of my head. To me, I feel that Sakurai wasn't being creative enough with ideas when looking through the other choices.

9. I agree that Takamaru has a way better chance than Sukapon at this point, but I think Balloon Fighter still has a chance. Sakurai is pretty strict about what characters to make playable that are Japan only. Balloon Fighter is worldwide. Again, that statement of him not coming up with anything for Balloon Fighter was over 10 years ago. Obviously he never forgot about the character since he is well reference in both Melee & Brawl. Who knows if maybe 10 years since he made that statement that he possibly might get more creative with this character.

10. Now about Lip, I understand the skirt issue, but that is an obvious problem that can be fixed. He was able to fix Peach's & Zelda's dresses from Melee to Brawl. How can be fix it you ask? Simple, extend the skirt slightly closer to the knee area and throw in some short shorts underneath to hide anything private or just leave it a solid color like black or white. Or even extend the length of both skirt and boots to hide more skin. We can't say it is possible since Smash Bros series has changed many features of a lot of characters for the game compared to their original series. Also, in the later games of the Puzzle League, Lip was revealed to be the mother of Furil, the descendant of Lip. Cause of this, it gives Sakurai the option to make Lip into an adult if he wants to add in a more recent appearance of her.

11. But still, Takamaru is more overrated than both Meowth & Krystal. You say Krystal is nobody, yet many gaming fans are more familiar with her than they are with Takamaru. Same with Meowth.

12. Though it is not fair in a way to blame Takamaru's game for the poor sales since it had to compete with some popular games, but seriously, that shouldn't be excusable. I say this cause there have been ton of new franchises that had competition and still became popular in its own rights and sold well though the history of gaming. Note that both those games of Takamaru were ported into a Japan only series. Also, Clu Clu Land was also in the same shoes in the Famicon series. Really, the Samurai Warriors 3 game is probably one of his biggest assets to his resume. But also, its not like he got in due to popularity. Think about this, its a game of Samurai's, and Takamaru is perhaps Nintendo's only choice of a character to throw in since it would not make sense to add in someone else in a game like that. Now, about that TV show, was it popular? Did fans acknowledge that the drama was based off the game? Also, I found a different source that says that the TV series was not based of the game, only an episode was. So, its kinda hard which of the 2 sources could be telling the truth. Here it is. www.hardcoregaming101.net/murasamejou/murasamejou.htm These are some areas that need to be looked at also if we expect series influence on the TV show to support this character.

Also, lets compare Takamaru's series & Duck Hunt Dog's series non-gaming appearances.

Takamaru:
a drama or episode show based off his game

Duck Hunt Dog: (WARNING: the 1st two links are explicit)
An appearance in the Academy Award movie in "Boyz N Da Hood.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wI8gb8yDZw

Mentioned & discussed on VH1's "I Love Toys: 80's edition" along with Mario.
gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/7873

A skit on the Cartoon Network show "Drawn Together".
Part 1www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT2kvkz-IvQ
Part 2www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKSrNmCiy8&feature=related

A skit from College Humor & one from another I can't remember
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Hho69a3GQ

There is a band named after the character called "I Shot The Duck Hunt Dog".

And tons and tons of other references


Now, for an update on my roster. I will make the cuts first. The characters I cut from my roster.

Midna: I want this character more than any other Zelda newcomer, but due to only one appearance she gets cut.

Anthony Higgs: same reason as Midna

Their replacements

Isaac & Saki

That is it for now. There will be more reasonable cuts. But I am willing to take a second look at some of the characters.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Aug 13, 2011 20:10:21 GMT -5 SmashKing201 said:

1. Understandable now on how Pikachu got its popularity. Would like to see some sources for this, but Pikachu is not the main focus right now. But also, Meowth indeed had some important or special role in the gaming series, even though it was not in the main series. Remember he had bigger roles in the spin-offs as well. There was a special card of Meowth in the Pokemon Trading Card game, appeared as part of Team Rocket in Pokemon Puzzle League, he was one of the playable characters in the Mystery Dungeon series, etc. Even though some may be based on anime, to say he never had any bigger roles than the ones in the major Pokemon games is false. TCG is not associated with the main games. EVERY Pokemon has a "special" card save for a few. Puzzle League is a game FOR the anime, and was Western release only. And you can play as ANY Pokemon in Mystery Dungeon. Even Magikarp.

2. Well, im convince on the logic of the 3 Pokemon compared to the 3 Star Fox reps. Well, on what Pokemon I should cut is not going to be an easy one and stays undecided for now. But here is one thing that comes to mind, if Lucario had not been demanded by Game Freak to Sakurai and the original plan was for 5 Mario & 5 Pokemon reps, who you think would have gotten that final spot for the Pokemon series? I still say Lucario would've been in due to overall being the posterchild of the latest Gen.

3. Pelutena is actually more than just Pit's guide during his quest. Pelutena is the reason that Pit is even on this mission to save Skyworld. Remember, that the whole story of the Kid Icarus series is that it is a war between Pelutena & Medusa. Though Pit is the playable character, he is Pelutena's choice of leading the army. Easy way to say this is that Pit is Pelutena's pawn in the game. Now this is not saying that Pit is less important, just saying that Pelutena's role is far bigger than just being Pit's guidance. Yet you don't see Palutena getting in on the action. She makes Pit do her work. Zelda at least joins Link in stopping Ganon from time to time. Palutena is better off staying as part of Pit's Final Smash, or on the background of a stage where she can either help or smite characters whenever she sees fit. (Think Palkia, Dialga, and Cressilia.)

4. We all knew that poll was not who Sakurai was possibly adding. We knew that for a fact. Krystal didn't get the most request, but she still had a well received number of request. And speaking of well received, I still wonder about how could Krystal's games even fail in the series. The games she was in still got well-received reviews by critiques alike. Hell, Star Fox 64, Star Fox Adventure, & Star Fox Assault are listed as part of the Nintendo Player's Choice line. And 2 out of 3 of those games where some of Krystal's biggest games to date. Adventure being her debut and Assault being how she took Peppy's place as a pilot. The main issue with the Star Fox games that featured Krystal where that there was less origins of the early Star Fox games. Being that Fox belongs in the Arwings. That is the biggest complaint of the later series, not the actual character. Shadow the Hedgehog got Player's Choice. It still doesn't stop fans from hating it.

5. The R.O.B. issue I actually agree with so moving on. I don't support Resetti either. But also, remember Phoenix Wright is planned for UMvsC 3 and he is not a fighter in any way what so ever. Sure that is a different game and not Smash, but to eliminate Tom Nook for not fighting I disagree on. There's a difference between the AC series and AA series. AC is about making the best of your life and having fun. The most violent thing you can do to someone is trap a butterfly net over their head, IIRC. As for AA, it's not so friendly. Sure, it isn't about violence, but you are finding flaws in arguments in order to prove that the opponent is guilty or not guilty. Outside of that, Phoenix has been punched in the face, knocked out of a building into a cold lake (and only getting a cold, mind you.), and has even kicked down locked doors with little effort. Wright may not be one to fight (as it's against his morals), but the guy is strong and durable. And I'm sure Phoenix would shed his morals and fight if the world is at stake (ex. Galactus coming to devour the planet).

6. As for Starfy, though the chances might be slim cause of Sakurai's dislike, I don't think he should be label as a character with no possibility so soon. And remember, that site is just one poll and one area of the fanbase which is Japan. We can't just say Starfy is not well-liked overall if only one fanbase is putting in their 2 cent. This is true, but I still have my doubts.

7. About the source of Little Mac's popularity. It has me curious so I will see what I can find anyways and let you know what turns out.

8. Yes, Sakurai went down a list of potential NES rep before going with the Ice Climbers. Sakurai said Balloon Fighter can only use balloons, he couldn't figure out ways to make Excitebiker & Mach Rider jump or even fight, and Urban Champion couldn't do anything other than punch. Don't remember if there were other retros he considered but that is what I remember from the top of my head. To me, I feel that Sakurai wasn't being creative enough with ideas when looking through the other choices. He did not say such thing with Mach Rider. Just Excitebiker. And this isn't really an issue of "lack of creativity". It's more of "what's the point?" in including most of these. I mean, of the choices, Ice Climbers would probably appeal the most due to their design. Excitebiker (and even Mach Rider) lose part of their appeal due to a similar character (Captain Falcon). Balloon Fighter doesn't give much appeal because we already have a "balloon fighter" in Jigglypuff. Urban Champion guy is just bland. Blander than Ryu. Bubbles (the other character he mentioned) has her appeal taken by Kirby.
Speaking of which, this is what he said:
@[barunhuaito]c the balloon being divided, useless so it puts out,
@[abanchiyanpion]c [waza] puts out so little,
@you do not know whether [kurukururando]c how it is possible to fight and
@if [ekisaitobaiku]c the jump stand it is attached and others it is not, to put out,


9. I agree that Takamaru has a way better chance than Sukapon at this point, but I think Balloon Fighter still has a chance. Sakurai is pretty strict about what characters to make playable that are Japan only. Balloon Fighter is worldwide. Again, that statement of him not coming up with anything for Balloon Fighter was over 10 years ago. Obviously he never forgot about the character since he is well reference in both Melee & Brawl. Who knows if maybe 10 years since he made that statement that he possibly might get more creative with this character.If anything, the references HINDER his chances. Think about where they are. On Ice Climber stages. Why this matters? Think about this. Ice Climber was the retro title that won. Other retro titles are given references within the stages. Balloon Fight (with it's protagonist "being useless without balloons"), Clu Clu Land (with its protagonist not having many options to fight), and Shin Onigashima (which is WAY obscure compared to the other 2). And with the Flipper in Melee and the Urina in Brawl and the Lip's Stick in both, I beleive this is Sakurai's way of adding representation for series without giving them characters. On that note, Smashville, Hanenbow, Mr. Resetti, and the Pitfall count in this too.

10. Now about Lip, I understand the skirt issue, but that is an obvious problem that can be fixed. He was able to fix Peach's & Zelda's dresses from Melee to Brawl. How can be fix it you ask? Simple, extend the skirt slightly closer to the knee area and throw in some short shorts underneath to hide anything private or just leave it a solid color like black or white. Or even extend the length of both skirt and boots to hide more skin. We can't say it is possible since Smash Bros series has changed many features of a lot of characters for the game compared to their original series. Also, in the later games of the Puzzle League, Lip was revealed to be the mother of Furil, the descendant of Lip. Cause of this, it gives Sakurai the option to make Lip into an adult if he wants to add in a more recent appearance of her.

11. But still, Takamaru is more overrated than both Meowth & Krystal. You say Krystal is nobody, yet many gaming fans are more familiar with her than they are with Takamaru. Same with Meowth. Just because they're well known, it doesn't mean that they aren't overrated. Both Krystal and Meowth aren't important to their games, while Takamaru is the star of his.
Krystal is overrated because of these reasons.
1. People want her in because she's female. They really don't give a crap what she does in the games, which isn't much.
2. People want her because "OMG she'd be WAY different from Fox and co. because she owned a staff that she didn't use!" When the truth of the matter is, she'll be a 3rd semiclone of Fox. And in that case, give that role to someone who's been around longer and has a large fanbase, and is not furry bait. (Slippy) Or better yet, DON'T add another SF character, as they'd ALL be semiclones save for General Scales. And you don't see General Scales coming in anytime soon.
3. Most of her "popularity" comes from the fact she's a blue space fox with boobs.

Meowth is overrated because:
1. He only is important to the anime. He is not one of the most popular Pokemon anymore (which, at the time of SSB, he was 4th, while Squirtle was 3rd.), and he holds no relevance to the games like how Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon.
2. His time has come. If he was going to be in Smash, it'd would have been in 64 in Jigglypuff's stead, as he, like Pikachu, had grand exposure to the anime AND 1st Gen was the ONLY Gen at the time.
3. Popularity doesn't exactly meet demands unless you're in the Top 2. I mean, Heracross was the most requested 2nd Gen Pokemon, and we got Pichu.

12. Though it is not fair in a way to blame Takamaru's game for the poor sales since it had to compete with some popular games, but seriously, that shouldn't be excusable. I say this cause there have been ton of new franchises that had competition and still became popular in its own rights and sold well though the history of gaming. Note that both those games of Takamaru were ported into a Japan only series. Also, Clu Clu Land was also in the same shoes in the Famicon series. Really, the Samurai Warriors 3 game is probably one of his biggest assets to his resume. But also, its not like he got in due to popularity. Think about this, its a game of Samurai's, and Takamaru is perhaps Nintendo's only choice of a character to throw in since it would not make sense to add in someone else in a game like that. Now, about that TV show, was it popular? Did fans acknowledge that the drama was based off the game? Also, I found a different source that says that the TV series was not based of the game, only an episode was. So, its kinda hard which of the 2 sources could be telling the truth. Here it is. www.hardcoregaming101.net/murasamejou/murasamejou.htm These are some areas that need to be looked at also if we expect series influence on the TV show to support this character.

Also, lets compare Takamaru's series & Duck Hunt Dog's series non-gaming appearances.

Takamaru:
a drama or episode show based off his game

Duck Hunt Dog: (WARNING: the 1st two links are explicit)
An appearance in the Academy Award movie in "Boyz N Da Hood.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wI8gb8yDZw

Mentioned & discussed on VH1's "I Love Toys: 80's edition" along with Mario.
gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/7873

A skit on the Cartoon Network show "Drawn Together".
Part 1www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT2kvkz-IvQ
Part 2www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKSrNmCiy8&feature=related

A skit from College Humor & one from another I can't remember
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Hho69a3GQ

There is a band named after the character called "I Shot The Duck Hunt Dog".

And tons and tons of other references I was not saying Takamaru did more than Duck Hunt Dog. This was really unnecessary. I KNOW DHD did more. After all, like I said: "He's the one people love to hate."


Now, for an update on my roster. I will make the cuts first. The characters I cut from my roster.

Midna: I want this character more than any other Zelda newcomer, but due to only one appearance she gets cut.

Anthony Higgs: same reason as Midna

Their replacements

Isaac & SakiI already said Japan doesn't view Golden Sun as great as the West does. It's sales from game to game have decreased substantionally.

That is it for now. There will be more reasonable cuts. But I am willing to take a second look at some of the characters.

[SmashKing201]

Wow, been a while since I did anything with my roster. Anyways, I made some minor changes to it now.

Dixie Kong has now been removed as a single character. She will now be able to switch with Diddy Kong by pressing down b. However, they can not be on the stage at the same time. Again, they dont work as a duo, they can only switch.

Pelutena has been removed from my roster. Not because of her fighting ability, but because Kid Icarus is not ready for a 3rd rep and Medusa has more to offer and a promising choice. Note: This does not mean that I dont see Pelutena ever having potential.

Lip has been removed due to lack of worldwide exposure. Though I would love to have her in Smash. Hurts me to remove her

This leaves my roster to 57. More cuts are to be expected.

just posting this link for future reference

fryguy64.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ssb&action=display&thread=2418

[Dulliesziz]

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