ensane
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Post by ensane on Sept 6, 2011 12:33:33 GMT -5
I never though T. Link and Link were clones. Their moves may look similar, but the differences are such that the playstyle is completely different. Unlike Fox/Falco in Melee. In the Smash sense, clone means copying moves. There properties may be different, but as long as they are the same move and animation, they are cloned. Ganondorf is a clone of Falcon in Melee (and a semi-clone in Brawl). His moves are slower are more powerful, but they still copy Falcon's. Toon Link is the only clone in Brawl (the rest are semi-clones), despite have some different moves due to his shorter legs. I disagree. I believe if the style of play is sufficiently different then it doesn't really matter if it looks the same. If it mattered more about animations than programming I'd probably be playing a different fan game. |
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Excalibur
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Post by Excalibur on Sept 6, 2011 12:38:07 GMT -5
Also, I bet that pretty much everyone that voted for bombchus have their only reasons being: "unique", "not a clone move". Those are pretty much your strongest points in favour of the bombchu. But really, they don't benefit TL in the slightest compared to his regular bombs. Besides, how many of you main TL? To know what's best for him?
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Sept 6, 2011 12:44:22 GMT -5
I think I saw kill power as a reason somewhere. Which is definitely a good reason, since T. Link can't kill for crap, but I think a projectile kill move is too predictable. (Unlike Goku's it doesn't cross the screen at mach speed).
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dry
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sup
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Post by dry on Sept 6, 2011 12:51:53 GMT -5
Up smash is a mighty fine kill move as it is. If T. Link's killing power was fine in Brawl, why should it be any worse in Crusade?
...up smash wasn't nerfed, was it...?
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Excalibur
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Post by Excalibur on Sept 6, 2011 12:57:03 GMT -5
I think I saw kill power as a reason somewhere. Which is definitely a good reason, since T. Link can't kill for crap, but I think a projectile kill move is too predictable. (Unlike Goku's it doesn't cross the screen at mach speed). Yes, it would be predictable. Especially with that insane amount of starting lag it has. Plus, I've said this many times before on XAT, kill power isn't everything. Combos and strategies are, for the most part. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Sept 6, 2011 13:07:04 GMT -5
In the Smash sense, clone means copying moves. There properties may be different, but as long as they are the same move and animation, they are cloned. Ganondorf is a clone of Falcon in Melee (and a semi-clone in Brawl). His moves are slower are more powerful, but they still copy Falcon's. Toon Link is the only clone in Brawl (the rest are semi-clones), despite have some different moves due to his shorter legs. I disagree. I believe if the style of play is sufficiently different then it doesn't really matter if it looks the same. If it mattered more about animations than programming I'd probably be playing a different fan game. You can't disagree with how the official games work. super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/CloneOr...you CAN disagree. You'll just be wrong. |
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Post by falcon8r on Sept 6, 2011 13:08:44 GMT -5
Up smash is a mighty fine kill move as it is. If T. Link's killing power was fine in Brawl, why should it be any worse in Crusade? ...up smash wasn't nerfed, was it...? This might be a little off-topic, but it was very slightly nerfed. His best kill moves are definitely Up Smash, Side Smash, Down Air, and Up Air, IMO. Bombchus typically are best for stage control, but they hurt when they hit. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Sept 6, 2011 13:10:19 GMT -5
Am I the only one that wouldn't mind seeing Ezlo at some point?
Like maybe an Up-Tilt attack where Ezlo pecks at someone?
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Sept 6, 2011 13:33:04 GMT -5
I disagree. I believe if the style of play is sufficiently different then it doesn't really matter if it looks the same. If it mattered more about animations than programming I'd probably be playing a different fan game. You can't disagree with how the official games work. super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/CloneOr...you CAN disagree. You'll just be wrong. To be honest, I don't quite like your tone, but I guess that isn't important. "Most clones have since been Luigified in Brawl, and while some agree that clones are entirely non-existent SSBB, debate continues over whether or not Toon Link is a clone of Link, despite sharing a vast majority of the latter's moves." Are we just ignoring that? |
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Sept 6, 2011 14:53:23 GMT -5
Ezlo would be a cool taunt, Golden. I almost did that.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Sept 6, 2011 14:54:08 GMT -5
No, that isn't being ignored. It says "Debate continues over whether or not Toon Link is a clone of Link". It hasn't come to a conclusion. BUT, I go by this video series on whether characters are clones or not: This is the one for Link and Toon Link, and according to the studies, Tink is a clone. Here are the results of tests: 1. Ganondorf (as compared to Captain Falcon)=Semi-Clone 2. Falco (as compared to Fox)=Semi-Clone (though close to Clone) 3. Wolf (as compared to Fox)=Semi-Clone (though close to Non-Clone) 4. Luigi (as compared to Mario)=Semi-Clone 5. Ike (as compared to Marth)=Non-Clone 6. Lucas (as compared to Ness)=Semi-Clone 7. Toon Link (as compared to Link)=Clone 8. Lucario (as compared to Mewtwo (Melee))=Non-Clone But this is getting off topic. No one likes the idea of an Ezlo attack?  EDIT: I was ninja'd. @dmx: What stopped you? lol. |
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Sept 7, 2011 0:43:35 GMT -5
The problem is that you're using a Brawl comparison video. Since T. Link's uspecial, dspecial, dthrow, and FS were changed, and because Link's side special was changed, that would give a rating of 11/24 or 45.83%. If FS wasn't counted then it is 10/24 or 41.67%. The criteria he gives is <=30% is a clone. Therefore they have already been put at semiclone status.
If T. Link's old bomb was added, that would mean a drop to 10/24 or 41.67% or 9/24 which is 37.5%. Therefore they would still not be clones.
(This is missing the changes for the fact that there is no pummel. I may change it later, but I have to get up in 5 hours).
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Sept 14, 2011 11:32:08 GMT -5
Wow, when did all these people vote?
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Post by PartisanDaw on Sept 14, 2011 13:56:48 GMT -5
Wow, when did all these people vote? I'm one of them. I changed my mind to Bombs. |
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Sept 14, 2011 15:11:10 GMT -5
Hasn't anyone noticed that Link and YOUNG (not toon) Link have almost nothing in common except for arrows? Why take away from that? The two play completely different and that was the goal.
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Excalibur
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Post by Excalibur on Sept 14, 2011 15:24:19 GMT -5
Hasn't anyone noticed that Link and YOUNG (not toon) Link have almost nothing in common except for arrows? Why take away from that? The two play completely different and that was the goal. You're not looking at it from the perspective of what BENEFITS his metagame. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Sept 14, 2011 15:39:20 GMT -5
He's "Young" Link in name only. Young Link refers to the younger Link that appears in OoT (which is literally, a young Link, as he grows up) and MM (as he uses the same design from OoT sans adult Link). Toon Link refers to any Link that uses the cartoonish style with the short limbs, big head, and huge cat eyes. Hence TOON. CarTOON. This isn't a big issue, but don't tell us we can't call him Toon Link, as that's what he is. You can have him named Young Link all you want. If we call him Toon Link, don't correct us; as you obviously know who we're referring to anyway. |
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Post by falcon8r on Sept 14, 2011 16:30:10 GMT -5
He's "Young" Link in name only. Young Link refers ... Off-topic...  Interesting shift in the votes. Did some Y. Link playing recently, and I do like the idea of Bombchu, but it just didn't turn out to be as useful as we'd hoped. It's sort of like a smaller, but more powerful version of Thunder Jolt. Not trying to sway anyone's opinion - just think about whether uniqueness or usefulness is more important. |
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Post by DGN on Sept 14, 2011 16:42:29 GMT -5
I have decided to retract my vote. However, I have not placed a vote on bombs after this, as I do not play as Young Link often(though I used to secondary him).
I actually even said to Excalibur in the chat:
"You want to know why voted Bombchus?
"
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Sept 14, 2011 17:01:29 GMT -5
He's "Young" Link in name only. Young Link refers ... Off-topic... You want to make a counterpoint to my explanation, or just get angry over the fact I said "in name only"? On-Topic: I don't play as Toon Link much here, but I find the Bombchus fun to use. |
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