|
|
Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Sept 29, 2011 6:07:12 GMT -5
I just like watching Crusade matches- especially new characters like Waluigi, Mach Rider, Ristar, Bomberman, Krystal on new stages like Asteroid Field, Chemical Plant, Cut Man's Arena, Rice Beach, Good Egg Galaxy... that's what I like most about SSBC.
I like the old forum better too. It still works, all accounts should work. I still have admin powers and I can bring it back to its old form (forum, lol).
|
|
|
|
Post by jaklub on Sept 29, 2011 7:06:17 GMT -5
I've said it in another thread, but I will say it again in this more fitting place. I agree with Felipe releasing the gmk will destroy Crusade. After devs drop it, it would be a miracle if someone picked it up and made it into a fuller game. Most probably, because of the complexity of code, very few basic modifications would appear, if any.
By the way, I have to say this whole situation is pretty ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 7:16:25 GMT -5
I've said it in another thread, but I will say it again in this more fitting place. I agree with Felipe releasing the gmk will destroy Crusade. After devs drop it, it would be a miracle if someone picked it up and made it into a fuller game. Most probably, because of the complexity of code, very few basic modifications would appear, if any. By the way, I have to say this whole situation is pretty ridiculous. THIS ^^ Guys, i think is hilarious how do you say " We are going to make project C" If you dont know how the engine works. I have been exploring the engine for almost a year and i dont fully understand it. SO far i have learned how to add stages, but thats it, i havent found something important. I Dont know how to add charactrs (because Data.bin(, even more, i cant even add mewtwo (Data.bin again). Do you know how characters works??? Scripts. Each attacks is a DIFFERENT FILE. yeah, there is a script for JAB, one for UTILT, one for FSMASH etcetc And every attack have at least 14 different arguments, Damage, Knockback Growth, Direction, Knockback, Duration. I havent done a single modification of attacks because is too Complex. is not like "Okay this attack will do 3 damage and a low koncback". No, you have to set a hitbox, set if the attack can be done in air or not, if not, you have to switch to standing animation after the attack is finished. is a PAIN: I have a friend who is a master on Javascript and C and he couldnt udnerstand fully the code. Just dont do this. It's going to destroy crusade. |
|
|
|
Post by DGN on Sept 29, 2011 7:22:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 7:24:51 GMT -5
Felipe, did you even pay attention to about month ago? Nights and I were going to make a DLC version of Crusade after it's completion. Which means we'd have to learn the code. Since Nights quit Crusade, it falls to me. I'd have to learn it eventually.
Not to mention that I'll have Falcon on my side to explain things if I have questions. You had to explore everything yourself.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 7:29:23 GMT -5
Okay, explain, how would you add DLC. The characters are In Game coded. You need to load all the scripts in a separate file. More, you have to modify how the Data.bin works, and detect if there are additional characters available. ALL THAT without knowing how the code works.
Thats why crusade takes so long to be coded, because is a solid engine, and a solid engine is in the 99.9% of the cases, complex.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 7:38:11 GMT -5
DLC was essentially going to be a series of patches. Each patch would come with a new .exe and all the necessary files for 5 new characters, as well as any stages that are being added. The total number of characters on the DLC roster was going to be 25, thus there would be 5 versions of CrusaDLC. The difference between this and adding the characters yourself is that I actually got approval from EVERY DEVELOPER. After 1.0, Falcon would've handed the .gmk to Nights and I to add stuff to.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 7:40:33 GMT -5
In that case, that is not dlc, because you are downloading again the game ;P
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 7:43:47 GMT -5
You're downloading additional content. Thus "Downloadable Content". ;P
And you're not re-downloading the whole game. Just the .exe and five folders filled with sprites and sounds.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 7:47:41 GMT -5
In any case, DLC =/= open source. Dlc is an amazing add for any game (If is free lol), but making open source is not going to help.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 7:51:36 GMT -5
When did I say that DLC was the same thing as open-source? You were saying there was no way I could code all the new characters for Project: Crusade and I said that I was going to code characters eventually, and would just have to learn a bit earlier.
To clarify, if the game progressed normally and got to 1.0, Falcon would give me (and only a few other people) the .gmk, and with it I'd code 25 new characters then release them 5 at a time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 7:55:41 GMT -5
I havent retracted on that point, i still think you cant code all the characters for a hypothetical Project C (I still think Falcol dont want to go open source), because you have to know a lot about the code. Some part are explained (The argument are explained) but, for example, i still dont figure how the hitboxes works. And i have been exploring the engine for almost a year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 8:01:22 GMT -5
Yes, but you can't ask Falcon for help. Whereas I can. Falcon would probably be willing to help get me started and explain stuff when there's an issue. You've been looking at in on your own.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on Sept 29, 2011 8:09:32 GMT -5
I have asked Falcon for help (Not characters, only stages) O-o
Man, it sounds like i am exaggerating about scripts. But, i am not. My computer freezes for approximately a minute when i open the Scripts tab on Game Maker 7 o-o
Look, lets count. Jab, Ftilt,Dtilt,Utilt,Usmash,fsmash,dsmash,Uair,Dair,Fair,Bair.Nair,Jump (yeah there is a script for every action) Grab, Btrow,Ftrow,Utrow,Dtrow,B,Side B,Up B, Down B, Zair (Optional),Fsmash
21-22 Scripts PER character, supposing you know about the engine, it would take at least, 2 weeks to CODE the character, without sprites.
Do you see my point??? Is too much work, even knowing the engine.
|
|
|
|
Post by DGN on Sept 29, 2011 8:13:28 GMT -5
How old is your computer, felipe? Just curious there.
Also, it's definitely more than 22 scripts. Let's take samus for example. There would need a charging animation, a shooting animation, the projectile animation, and for missles the two forms of the missle.
Ryu? 6 different ones for his specials. Not counting Evil Ryu either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 8:14:01 GMT -5
And yet Falcon managed to code 37 unique characters already. Therefore it's not too much work, and it's not impossible. DGN: Each script includes EVERYTHING for the action, I would presume. Samus's charge shot could have a section like "if charge level < full charge, play charging.gif. Else create object charge_shot (x something, y something." lrn2basic code. |
|
|
|
Post by plasmis on Sept 29, 2011 8:42:36 GMT -5
I have asked Falcon for help (Not characters, only stages) O-o Man, it sounds like i am exaggerating about scripts. But, i am not. My computer freezes for approximately a minute when i open the Scripts tab on Game Maker 7 o-o Look, lets count. Jab, Ftilt,Dtilt,Utilt,Usmash,fsmash,dsmash,Uair,Dair,Fair,Bair.Nair,Jump (yeah there is a script for every action) Grab, Btrow,Ftrow,Utrow,Dtrow,B,Side B,Up B, Down B, Zair (Optional),Fsmash 21-22 Scripts PER character, supposing you know about the engine, it would take at least, 2 weeks to CODE the character, without sprites. Do you see my point??? Is too much work, even knowing the engine. Which is exactly what programming is, problem solving. Everything takes time, so each programmer should examine and figure out ways of solving it. A workload is actually better than nothing at all. |
|
|
|
Post by jaklub on Sept 29, 2011 10:11:41 GMT -5
DGN: Each script includes EVERYTHING for the action, I would presume. Samus's charge shot could have a section like "if charge level < full charge, play charging.gif. Else create object charge_shot (x something, y something." lrn2basic code. It's not as simple as you think (probably still relatively simple, but not as quite as you think it is). There are multiple things to take in the consideration, what should happen when one presses left or right while charging, what should happen when one presses B while charging, what should happen when charging ends, etc. And chargeshot has to be coded as well. And the fact Samus' gun is flashing when it's charged has to be coded too. And you have to get the hitboxes and positions right. And balance everything afterwards. And get rid of bugs. And balance stuff again. And bugfix again. etc. Not to mention you have to fully analyze Falcon's code so you don't accidentally program something that is already in the game, making the gmk a labyrinth to navigate (this can be a real female dog sometimes) and causing the game to run slower (even bigger female dog). Everything has to be planned neatly. Rather a detail, but names of sprites in GM don't look like charging.gif. It's more like spr_fighter_charging_begin, spr_fighter_charging_end, spr_fighter_charging, etc (or something similar, as I haven't taken a look into Crusade's gmk simply because I don't have one). And the game is coded to load these before each match and they have to be removed from memory after it, you don't usually refer to filenames in the game itself. I know you have yet to learn the basics, but if you're going to edit something as complex as Crusade, you'd better start now. Long story cut short, Felipe is exaggerating, you're thinking it's easier than it actually is. |
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on Sept 29, 2011 10:43:23 GMT -5
I was giving Generic a simplified example. I know it isn't that simple. I've watched my friend make SF-style fighting games from scratch in GM, so I know it's complicated and bug-ridden for a while. If I could start learning now I would, but nobody can reach Falcon at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by DGN on Sept 29, 2011 10:48:17 GMT -5
DGN: Each script includes EVERYTHING for the action, I would presume. Samus's charge shot could have a section like "if charge level < full charge, play charging.gif. Else create object charge_shot (x something, y something." lrn2basic code. I've never coded anything. Ever. Not to mention you say "I would presume". This implies you are NOT 100% positive. lrn2saylrn2ifyouknowwhatyou'resaying |
|
