OBJECTION! This is far from over!

[StayPuft]

Or has it even begun? WHO KNOWS
Now I shall make the move for pulling (again?) for Phoenix Wright for Crusade.
*puts on the patented Stuponitron Helmet*


I want you people who think "H*** no", or something slightly similar, I want you to state your argument for WHY he shouldn't be in, and I'll try to respectfully disagree with you, and try to prove you wrong. Probably won't work. BUT WHO CARES. HUZZAH

Now, onto door number 2: The WIP moveset
I haven't gotten much done moveset-wise. Mostly because I'm not the best at thinking up smashes, aerials, etc.
BUT ANYWAY.

Specials (Already posted these so I won't explain. Working on a new Up Special)
NS - OBJECTION
SS - TAKE THAT
US - ?
DS - HOLD IT
FS - The Final Verdict

Other Attacks
-Jab - Punch, punch, then a small uppercut with his right arm.
-Side Tilt -
-Up Tilt - Upwards swipe with hand.
-Down Tilt -
-Side Smash - Rushes forward slightly, with shoulder and elbow forwards. Slightly resembles Wario's; based slightly on the fact that Phoenix has broken down doors. Like a boss.
-Up Smash -
-Down Smash - Slams ground with both hands; resembles Phoenix's usual slamming of hands on his desk in court.
-Neutral Air -
-Forward Air -
-Back Air -
-Up Air -
-Down Air - Kicks straight downwards. Could be considered a meteor smash.
-Dash Attack -
-Edge Attack -
-Grab - Grabs opponent with hand. Nuff said.
-Forward Throw - Pushes opponent forwards.
-Back Throw -
-Up Throw -
-Down Throw -

[member 777]

all i have to say

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oh, boy. The "King of Arguments" (i.e. Me) is going to have to disagree with Wright.

Wright, although is a novel idea, and can easily be done (ex. Captain Falcon), he just is not a fighter. Sure, he's tough and can brush off what would normally mortally injure someone or even KILL someone like it was nothing, but he never actually fights. Even in the moments where it's justified, he chooses to be a pacifist. It's against his nature to actually HIT someone.

[StayPuft]

GY used good argument?
What will SP do?
SP used poor argument!

Hmm... true, true.

However, aren't pacifists considered/wanted to be in Smash Bros quite a bit? Alright, not ALL the time, but take Animal Crossing. Phoenix would probably have a better chance at fighting than Tom Nook, and even you considered Nook (or at least at one point, dunno if you do now, haven't watched your most recent video, or I just can't remember). Wait, is that even relevant? I have no clue.
And Phoenix, despite never really "hitting" anyone (except for that ONE time, before Phoenix became a lawyer, but that was a push, really), Phoenix is rarely "pacifist" in the courtroom, where he usually always makes a defendant break down, and he doesn't relent in continuing to "attack" them (not physically) with questions, etc. Though he sometimes tries to make up afterwards if he can.

[sumika]

Riiiiiiiiiight... and someone like Toad is a fighter too. Oooooooookay then.

It doesnt matter if the characters a pacifist or not. Last I checked this is a game meant for fun and character selection, not some in depth thing where everyone would be like. "ZOH MY GEWDNESS PHOENIX WRIGHT WULD NEAVER FITE"

If you get my point.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

@nights: Toad HAS fought. SMB2, he picked up enemies and tossed them, as well as tossed items at enemies. Wario's Woods, he himself confronted Wario. (Granted, it was a puzzle game, confrontation is still confrontation.) NSMBWii, the two Toads do EXACTLY what Mario and Luigi do. In the Mario Kart series, he rams people and tosses Shells at them.

And there's a reason why Wright isn't in MvC3. He. Doesn't. Fight.

@sp: That may be so, but this isn't a court scene, it's a battle arena. Phoenix is more or less a fish out of water in this genre. As for Tom Nook, I removed him from my roster for the same reason; the AC games are non-violent. Granted, Ace Attourney is anything BUT non-violent, it does not bode well into fighting.
I say Phoenix Wright would make a great Assist, but not a playable character.

[member 777]

phoenix if throwing shell's count then phoenix has fought he has thrown a cell phone at edge-worth

and the reason he isn't in MvsC 3 is because objection is ten letter's while the jape version is 4

[GoldenYuiitusin]

That was TATSUNOKO VS. CAPCOM, not MARVEL VS. CAPCOM.
And throwing a cell phone ONE time is not the same as continuously tossing shells at other karts to win a race. As well as banana peels and other weapons.

If you're not going to make a valid argument, don't make an argument AT ALL.

[sumika]

You completely ignored the fact that I said, This is a fan game, not a super legit oh my god its gotta be like the actual smash bros series, game. Just because someone doesn't fight in their games, doesnt mean they cant fight in something 100% unrelated.

And lets not forget the whole, The fighters are trophies and what what, bit. Which means, it's technically not even them.

[member 777]

May 7, 2011 1:13:54 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

That was TATSUNOKO VS. CAPCOM, not MARVEL VS. CAPCOM.
And throwing a cell phone ONE time is not the same as continuously tossing shells at other karts to win a race. As well as banana peels and other weapons.

If you're not going to make a valid argument, don't make an argument AT ALL.

it was mvsc

the cell phone isn't the only thing's his thrown

your the one with invaild agruement toad in crusade dosen't even have any move's from mario kart and evryone could use an object and throw it what's your point

in all racing game's people throw stuff by your logic king boo and koopa troopa and dry bone's also birdo should be in

[GoldenYuiitusin]

@sumika: Ok then, let's add L-Block! Can he fight? No, but he's iconic! We HAVE to include him! Same with Metapod! It's useless in the Pokemon games, but this isn't Pokemon! We can make it fight! How about a Nintendog? They don't fight, they play; doesn't matter, this is a fangame! PUPPY BRAWL! See where I'm going with this?
And despite the characters being trophies, they STILL retain the actual characters' personailities. So it's them, but at the same time, it's not.

member 777 : No, the issue with Phoenix's OBJECTION! was in TATSUNOKO VS. CAPCOM. Do your research. www.1up.com/news/phoenix-wright-originally-intended-tatsunoko
In Marvel vs. Capcom 3, they pretty much had the same belief as I do, and that he is not a fighter.

Yeah, because throwing things for comedic relief is PERFECT grounds for being a fighter. Face facts; Phoenix isn't a good choice for a fighting game and never will be.

You cannot say my argument is invalid if you have not read the ENTIRE argument. Mario Kart was NOT the only example I posted of Toad. Lrn2read.

[sumika]

May 7, 2011 2:11:10 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

-snip-.

Theres a big difference between Phoenix and L-block or Metapod. And you know it too. Phoenix isn't like them for a MULTITUDE of reasons. Not to mention L-block isnt even a CHARACTER. Metapod is like saying ANY pokemon can/should get in which = Any character thats not a main character should get in, and phoenix is obviously a main character. Your argument with metapod is saying uncannon/non-staple characters should get in, which is really not the point. So that argument is invalid. And saying Nintendog is like phoenix is just as bad. Because once again, it's barely a character, what would it do? Run into you? Bite you? Nice moveset.

I mean really. I'm not saying "THIS R FANGAME ANY 1 SHULD GET IN" I'm saying "This is a fan game, if a character is out of character (Oh the lulz) doesn't mean he should be completely excluded from the game. Thats like saying... If someone were to make a platformer and then you burst in and said, "Such and such character doesn't jump in his games, its not in his character, so dont use him." That doesnt mean their going to just stop production. So he doesn't fight in his games, whats your point? Mr.Game&Watch is a made up character that didnt fight in most of the games he came from. But... OH. Look. he fights. Rob? LOL... He was a toy, NOT A FIGHTER! HE SHOULDNT BE IN BRAWL OR CRUSADE! PLUS Peach wasn't a fighter before Melee, and dont say Super Mario Bros 2. Because that was Mario's dream. Thus meaning, it wasnt really Peach. That's the logic you're giving me here.

How exactly do you know that the creators of MVC3 just thought, "Oh he's not a fighter"? That one link you just showed? If that's the case, then you're wrong. They said his localization of Objection would be over powered due to the increased character length, and that they had a small lack of moves. That's it. They didnt mention anything about. "He's just not a fighter"

Why in the blue blazes do you get so overly assertive over things like this? You seem to get pissed off when people dont see it your way, just accept the fact some people wont see it your way. You and me obviously see it 100% differently. There's no use. One of us is just going to give up arguing because we're just going to keep irritating each other with our Points of View. So -shrug-

[StayPuft]

Hmm, Phoenix could be Crusade's WTF character, like Melee's was Mr. Game & Watch, and Brawl's was R.O.B., and to an extent 64's was Jigglypuff. But even then. (I hope I got those right...)

Even though he didn't get into MvC3 (except for a cameo in an ending, iirc), there was a "movement" or whatever of people that wanted Phoenix Wright in, creating petitions and stuff. So he is pretty requested/wanted, even though Smash Bros. is nothing like MvC. So that shows quite a few people don't really care about that Phoenix is usually a pacifist, they just want him... if that makes any sense. Remember: feeding into the hands of the fans = profit. Most of the time.

This is good! I like discussion! I just don't want it to end up like a flame war or anything D:

[DGN]

Awesome post, Nights. XD
Simlarly to the SMB2 being a dream, if its any consolation, that was originally a game that had nothing to do with Mario, Doki Doki Panic, and thus a few fans don't consider it canon.
Olimar also isn't a fighter, IIRC, he's just a commander. Yet a handful of his moves didn't involve the pikmin at all.
Fox, Falco, and Wolf flew planes for a long time, but were never really ground fighters.

Anyways, I'd love to have Phoenix in. Nobody in the game represents a game like his, and the only other person who's game is similar to his that I know of is Professor Layton, who I don't think is as popular as Wright.(woah, run-on sentence) Wright would be a great, family-friendly character to replace Morrigan as well.

[StayPuft]

Actually, I think I heard somewhere that Layton was one of the characters considered for Brawl that never got in, though I can't remember for the life of me where I heard that or even if it is true.

[-Dr.MarioX-]

This may have came up a little too late...

[El Maiz]

I'm gonna say a few things.

Golden, realize that Nights has common sense. Please.
Nights, yes.
And Golden, you just disproved your entire argument.
Hoping you can see that.

[StayPuft]

May 7, 2011 7:51:05 GMT -5 -Dr.MarioX- said:

This may have came up a little too late...

So the roster is almost finished/is finished?

It'd better be good >:3

[El Maiz]

It probably isn't finished.
Because it probably doesn't have the ICs.

[sumika]

It probably isnt finished because it changes every 5 minutes.

And I'm not going to argue Discuss anymore. Just, that was my opinion on the matter, and that's enough.