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Post by Dettadeus on Aug 5, 2011 12:34:20 GMT -5
Fixed the page stretch on DMX's post.
Again, I still don't like any of these choices. Nothing more I can say.
EDIT: Well that was kind of pointless but oh well.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on Aug 5, 2011 12:37:46 GMT -5
Change alucard for Richter and i will vote for it
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Post by SmashKing201 on Aug 5, 2011 12:39:46 GMT -5
@ detta
Thank you for fixing that large image ;D
Well, I already explained the issues with Magnus.
By the way, it doesn't really matter how many Wiiware games Strong Bad had, he originated as a 4th party character. He is a horrible choice to be on this roster. Goku himself is hands down the most criticized addition to this roster, so imagine how much more criticism Crusade would get with a 2nd forth party.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Aug 5, 2011 14:11:19 GMT -5
No one's played Kid Icarus Uprising, so he can't be graded. We don't know how unique he is yet or what kind of impact he will make. All we know is that he will be someone to look at. You guys are acting like you know everything about him with things like "Palutena, Medusa, and Eggplant Wizard mean more to people than Magnus does" and "Nightmare is more unique". The problem with those other 3 Kid Icarus characters are, for the first two, they're too big. Eggplant Wizard is just dumb. Honestly, no. Never. Worst character I've heard mentioned yet.
I think RoyMaster4 has some credibility here, considering he's a dev for Flash 2. Frank and Strong Bad are good choices. Strong Bad is barely looked at as 4th Party. Frank can be compared to Bomberman. Bomberman's games weren't universally acclaimed, but he still has tons of fans.
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Post by DGN on Aug 5, 2011 14:16:08 GMT -5
1:32
She's just a little bit higher than Pit.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Aug 5, 2011 16:11:09 GMT -5
No one's played Kid Icarus Uprising, so he can't be graded. We don't know how unique he is yet or what kind of impact he will make. All we know is that he will be someone to look at. You guys are acting like you know everything about him with things like "Palutena, Medusa, and Eggplant Wizard mean more to people than Magnus does" and "Nightmare is more unique". The problem with those other 3 Kid Icarus characters are, for the first two, they're too big. Eggplant Wizard is just dumb. Honestly, no. Never. Worst character I've heard mentioned yet. I think RoyMaster4 has some credibility here, considering he's a dev for Flash 2. Frank and Strong Bad are good choices. Strong Bad is barely looked at as 4th Party. Frank can be compared to Bomberman. Bomberman's games weren't universally acclaimed, but he still has tons of fans. First off, the fact that we don't know anything about Magnus should be a BIG FAT reason not to include him. All we know is that he has a big sword. K. We got normal moves taken into consideration. Now what about Specials and Final Smash? For all we know, he could have some kickass moves, the only problem is, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. Second, just because you have a man-crush on Magnus doesn't mean that our reasoning for Palutena, Medusa, or lol Eggplant Wizard is out of credibility. Magnus is going to be in the new game. That's it. Palutena was in all 3. Medusa is in two of the three. And lol Eggplant Wizard was in all 3. Palutena is the Zelda of the series (in Japan, HER name is in the title of the series.). Medusa is the main antogonist of two of the games. Lol Eggplant Wizard is an iconic enemy that appeared in an old cartoon as a primary antagonist (Which really is all it has for him, but hey, it's better than Magnus' resume) And to add Magnus but leave out Zoroark due to not being nostalgic is hypocritical. And "too big"? Lol, you have THE character that is always argued as "too big" (Ridley), so really, this argument holds no water. ESPECIALLY considering that in reality, Medusa and Palutena aren't large. They are goddesses; they can shrink or grow as they please. Anyways, they haven't even shown to be large in Uprising. They merely use images of themselves to appear large for dramatic effect. And no matter how much you love Magnus, you still have to realize, that yes, he will NOT mean as much to people as Palutena or Medusa. Lastly, calling Strong Bad a good choice for a 4th Party is just deluding yourself. He didn't even start off as a MOVIE or ANIME character, but a INTERNET SERIES character. You call Homer Simpson a poor choice, and yet you suggest Strong Bad, who is much worse of a choice. At least Homer is popular WORLDWIDE to where more than just rabid internet nerds with no life know who he is and worship him. EDIT: And on an important note, you wouldn't find roymaster to be as "credible" as you say if he didn't agree with you, so don't use him as a pro reason for your faulty argument. As for Frank West, we already have one undeserving Capcom character to get rid of (Morrigan), we don't need another. Mike Haggar and Phoenix Wright FTMFW. They have had more games on Nintendo systems alone than Frank and Morrigan COMBINED. |
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Chaotic Chao
Forum Regular
Speed Highway is the best stage in history.
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Post by Chaotic Chao on Aug 5, 2011 16:25:34 GMT -5
Seriously, if you left to avoid having to argue (or fuss) with DMX, it's strange that you come back...to do just that.
I don't like Strong Bad much either, though.
And you're for Phoenix Wright!? HELL YEAH!
Golden wins for that.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Aug 5, 2011 16:29:32 GMT -5
I left because I couldn't handle the faulty arguments and overall stupidity ("DURR HOW WOULD ARBOK AND WEEZING WORK" after I posted a COMPLETE moveset.) (Not reading the description of my work "DURR MEOWTH'S FS IS JUST LIKE EVIL RYU'S")
But I can't leave faulty arguments uncriticized, so I guess I'm back now.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Aug 5, 2011 17:23:44 GMT -5
That's why we wait for Uprising, Golden, to figure out what he's like before we put him in. Obviously, you didn't read the very thing you quoted.
Medusa is the main villain of Kid Icarus. Does that make her more important than Magnus because she is and he isn't? Well, let's have Rival Trainer! He's the "villain" of Pokemon. You seem to like having villains.
Ridley's sizes have varied in the Metroid games. He's been just a tad bigger than Samus to 4 times bigger than her. Same as Bowser. I found it odd that you assume that because they are Goddesses, Palutena and Medusa should be able to shrink down just for Smash. Isn't that a little exaggerated?
And again, we have not seen much of Magnus yet so no one can say anything. However, he's already looking much more viable than any of the other 3 mentioned Kid Icarus characters.
You don't like Strong Bad? ...So you wouldn't be in favor of having Werekill as a Dev character?
I find RoyMaster4 to be credible because he's a Flash 2 dev. They work hard and the game's good (I won't compare it to SSBC). He's been helping out a lot lately and has really proven his credibility.
Your requests for Mike Haggar are starting to sound a little too biased. Sure, everyone's biased at one point, but you have to be able to admit it.
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Post by Dettadeus on Aug 5, 2011 17:47:44 GMT -5
Just popping in to say that your rival ISN'T the "villain" of Pokemon. Team Rocket/Aqua/Magma/Galactic/Plasma is the "villain" of Pokemon, namely Giovanni, Archie, Maxie, Cyrus and Ghetsis.
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roymaster4
Forum Attendee
SSF2 Developer
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Post by roymaster4 on Aug 5, 2011 17:54:04 GMT -5
Strongbad was just biasedness, I don't really think he's a good choice. Frank is alright, but there are better choices (Chun-Li is NOT one of them, but oh well).
I have some complaints about the roster, but I'll discuss that in private when I get a chance. I don't think anything here will help.
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Post by DGN on Aug 5, 2011 18:42:27 GMT -5
I found it odd that you assume that because they are Goddesses, Palutena and Medusa should be able to shrink down just for Smash. Isn't that a little exaggerated? I find it funny how you said that he "didn't read the thing he quoted" when you can't understand that he said that they CAN do so. If they want to. AND the fact that in a video I posted. Medusa is JUST a TINY bit larger than Pit. Lrn2rd/wtch Medusa has a staff, magic, turning people into stone, her form from Kid Icarus I. By that logic, we could ALREADY have a COMPLETE moveset. Not to mention her snakes could attack. OF COURSE NOT! WHY THE HECK WOULD WE SUPPORT THAT? Haha. HA. I love how you don't mention that YOU'VE been biased. 2 SF characters? 7 CAPCOM REPS? FRANK WEST? STRONG BAD? Seriously, wat? And you know what? With my Haggar suggestion thread, you made absolutely NO comment on the matter. So basically, you have nothing to support your statement of why Haggar shouldn't be in. |
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Post by SmashKing201 on Aug 5, 2011 19:52:24 GMT -5
No one's played Kid Icarus Uprising, so he can't be graded. We don't know how unique he is yet or what kind of impact he will make. All we know is that he will be someone to look at. You guys are acting like you know everything about him with things like "Palutena, Medusa, and Eggplant Wizard mean more to people than Magnus does" and "Nightmare is more unique". The problem with those other 3 Kid Icarus characters are, for the first two, they're too big. Eggplant Wizard is just dumb. Honestly, no. Never. Worst character I've heard mentioned yet. I think RoyMaster4 has some credibility here, considering he's a dev for Flash 2. Frank and Strong Bad are good choices. Strong Bad is barely looked at as 4th Party. Frank can be compared to Bomberman. Bomberman's games weren't universally acclaimed, but he still has tons of fans. That is true, Magnus can't be graded since little is known about him and the game is yet to be released. So you know, we may not know much about Magnus, but we know enough to know that Medusa & Pelutena HAVE MORE priority than him. As I mentioned before, his role in the game has shed SOME light since E3. Matter of fact, here is an interview with Sakurai about this character that confirms more details of the character. According to Sakurai, he is a guest character and is only confirmed for that one chapter. But we still have to wait till the game comes out to find out more about him. here's the article. www.gamesaddict.info/kid-icarus-meets-man-magnus.htmlBut no matter what his role is, Medusa & Pelutena are recurring and more important to the series than Magnus. Though I really dont support Eggplant Wizard to be playable, I feel he is more worthy than Magnus at this point. For now, Magnus should sit on the side lines till Kid Icarus is out. Then maybe he could be considered. The issue of the size of Pelutena & Medusa are invalid since many characters in Smash Bros don't appear as their original size. Fact number 2: Here is Pit's height compared to Pelutena for example. This is the image of the Kid Icarus ending  Medusa compared to Pit:  Though I do agree that Eggplant Wizard would be a character many want to play, but he is obviously not the dumbest choice for a Smash game, especially when Strong Bad is in consideration. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Aug 5, 2011 20:18:51 GMT -5
That's why we wait for Uprising, Golden, to figure out what he's like before we put him in. Obviously, you didn't read the very thing you quoted. I did. Just the fact you even CONSIDER adding Magnus before we can see what he can do, and even then, consider him over Medusa shows what little comprehension you have for character choices. Medusa is the main villain of Kid Icarus. Does that make her more important than Magnus because she is and he isn't? Well, let's have Rival Trainer! He's the "villain" of Pokemon. You seem to like having villains. Actually, yes it does. Medusa: Main villain of series. Magnus: Sidekick for only small part of new game. Which holds more importance? And no, "Rival" isn't a villain. You seem to not know what a villain is. A Pokemon villain would be Giovanni, Cyrus, Ghetsis, etc. A rival is just that. A RIVAL. That's like saying Knuckles is a villain because he's a rival of Sonic. Ridley's sizes have varied in the Metroid games. He's been just a tad bigger than Samus to 4 times bigger than her. Same as Bowser. I found it odd that you assume that because they are Goddesses, Palutena and Medusa should be able to shrink down just for Smash. Isn't that a little exaggerated? It's not JUST for Smash, if you've been paying attention to the KI series. Palutena and Medusa aren't that big compared to Pit in the original Kid Icarus (Medusa's TRUE form, not that giant form you fight as the final boss). And in Uprising? Not that big either. Once again, they create images of themselves as large beings for dramatic effect. Didn't it strike you odd that Medusa looks a bit like a hologram in her latest appearances, save for the AR Card battle, where she's just taller than Pit? And again, we have not seen much of Magnus yet so no one can say anything. However, he's already looking much more viable than any of the other 3 mentioned Kid Icarus characters. OOH. He's got a bigass sword. He is the best choice! [/sarcasm] And by the way YOU'VE been defining viable, he is not, because he has no sprites. And really, Medusa is the most viable of them all. We've actually seen her abilities, and there will be plenty more when we fight her in Uprising. I mean, even if someone that doesn't know her takes a look at her, we see that she a. Has a rod, b. Controls snakes, c. Has supernatural powers, and d. Is frigging Medusa (turning people to stone). You don't like Strong Bad? ...So you wouldn't be in favor of having Werekill as a Dev character? I hated the original characters in SSF, I will hate any original characters HERE. I find RoyMaster4 to be credible because he's a Flash 2 dev. They work hard and the game's good (I won't compare it to SSBC). He's been helping out a lot lately and has really proven his credibility. So, because he said he supports Frank West, it's credible reasoning for his inclusion? What if he said he DIDN'T support Frank West, like he says for Strong Bad. Would he still be credible then? Would that give Frank credible reasoning to NOT be in? Your requests for Mike Haggar are starting to sound a little too biased. Sure, everyone's biased at one point, but you have to be able to admit it. Look who's calling the kettle black. One of the most biased people here is calling me biased. It's true, I am biased for Mike Haggar. However, the point still stands that he's a better choice than Frank or Morrigan, due to him being REAL nostalgia, and for having more connections to Nintendo that those two. I mean, all three main Final Fights were on Nintendo systems. The first Final Fight had so many remakes on different Nintendo systems as well. What has Frank got? A remake of Dead Rising that did poor on the Wii. And Morrigan? A Japanese only compilation title for Wii. None of the Capcom Vs. titles count. Frank and Morrigan were minorities in all of the ones they were in that were on Nintendo systems. And the difference between your bias and MY bias, is that mine has legitimate logical reasoning to back it up, as well as support from the Crusade community. |
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Aug 6, 2011 10:09:38 GMT -5
I say, someone is very angry. No wonder we can't settle something.
The reason you may seek bias in this poll is because this is just who comes to mind behind our closed doors of SSBC's development. We come up with stuff until we find what we want.
Rival Trainer, in the player's perspective (the most important part), was the villain. At the beginning of the game, he quickly tried to make himself superior and the one thing the player ever cared about was beating his rival down every time they battled. The true villain holds the deepest grudge against the player. Team Rocket called him kid. They didn't have time for him, but the Rival only focused on beating you.
...I don't think you owned Pokemon Red or Blue...or played them...
Viability, ONCE AGAIN GOLDEN, is judged on playability, spriting, and moveset potential. 3 Things, not just sprites.
RoyMaster4 can at least come up with reasonable suggestions. I'm not saying that just because of Frank.
Haggar is cool, but you have to understand interest. We're not getting paid to make this game and we don't have to put him in the game because you find yourself coming up with every reason to. This is a fan-game. We do what we want. We try to stay reasonable, but we need to have our choices too.
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Post by DGN on Aug 6, 2011 11:26:35 GMT -5
I say, someone is very angry. No wonder we can't settle something. Why do you think he gets angry? I don't think you did, either. You're only a few months older than me. And the first pokemon game I've played was Gold and Silver. So I don't really see how you can say a 17-YEAR OLD probably didn't play red or blue when you can say a 14-YEAR OLD-one that turned 14 just a few months ago-has. Except for the fact that in the past you've ignored the fact that spriting is part of viability. And the fact that Deoxys could get a 4.5 on viability is just ridiculous, when he has a ton of things to work with, a full, wonderful sprite sheet, and would play greatly. Like Lava Reef Zone, which you didn't support? Or a changed Ice Cap Zone?(which you didn't support either) Yes, but you put characters in the game because you find them reasonable. As of now, you don't have reason to keep him out-or Phoenix Wright, who could easily replace Morrigan-out. |
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Aug 6, 2011 11:33:55 GMT -5
I don't know why he gets angry. Gosh, it's a fan-game.
It's sad that he didn't play Red or Blue, because I did (still have the original cartridge). And I played and owned Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Snap. Saying I don't know Generation 1 is a mistake.
Deoxys has no good Smash sprite sheet. He's way too much for Smash. Besides, you guys are against having more than 1 type and I think you like Mewtwo more.
I didn't support the layouts, not the ideas for the stages.
Well, we don't completely find Haggar or Phoenix reasonable right now.
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Post by DGN on Aug 6, 2011 14:02:33 GMT -5
I don't know why he gets angry. Gosh, it's a fan-game. You really don't know? It's you and your "logic". inb4sayingI(GoldenYuiitusin)don'tknowgeneration1isamistake You've never seen this? img341.imageshack.us/img341/1407/deoxyssheet.pngIt's in the Deoxys board. >_> 1. Having more than one type adds to why they should be taken out. 2. Deoxys uses his Psychic moves in a different way from Mewtwo, who uses black magic. Deoxys doesn't really do so in the sheet, but he can. 3. By your logic, we should have Aggron, Scizor, and Gengar out for being part-poison(Ivysaur) and part-steel(Lucario).  Desptie being one of, if not the only person not to download Mewtwo's data bin? Like Haggar is Golden's bias, Deoxys is mine. What does this have to do with ANYTHING on this thread? No explanation to show why you say that, I see. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Aug 6, 2011 14:06:18 GMT -5
Before I continue....
DET EDIT: He has all the original cartridges. And two hands.
Any more false slander you have against me, DMX?
EDIT:
"Rival Trainer, in the player's perspective (the most important part), was the villain. At the beginning of the game, he quickly tried to make himself superior and the one thing the player ever cared about was beating his rival down every time they battled. The true villain holds the deepest grudge against the player. Team Rocket called him kid. They didn't have time for him, but the Rival only focused on beating you."
Yeah, not a villain. Just a douchebag.
Yes, he's the primary ANTAGONIST, but Antagonist =/= villain. There are such things as heroes being antagonists.
For example, the whole basis of Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2. Heroes vs. Heroes. Whichever side you chose, the heroes on the opposite side were your antagonists.
Now Rival is no hero, but he's no villain either. Just someone who wants what you want, but wants you not to have it. (Title of Pokemon Master).
In order to be a villain, he has to be evil and do dark things. The darkest thing he's done was try to get his sister to not lend you a map.
And anyways, we technically got the villain rep taken care of in Mewtwo. He's not really evil either, but he has "the most savage heart of all Pokemon", seeks nothing but to prove his strength to the world, and is ultimately destructive and ruthless. So pretty much, he's like Akuma. And Akuma is often considered a villain.
AND, I never said you didn't know Gen. 1. I said you didn't know what a VILLAIN was.
"Viability, ONCE AGAIN GOLDEN, is judged on playability, spriting, and moveset potential. 3 Things, not just sprites."
Which Magnus fails all three.
1. All we can assume by playability is that he'd be like Ike and have a slow, powerful sword.
2. Magnus has no sprites at all.
3. There is no potential for something we have not seen yet. You can't magically make something up and expect it to be decent compared to when we know more. Aside from that, ANYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA has moveset potential. So yes, once Uprising comes out he WILL have potential, but that means nothing. ANYONE has moveset potential, whether you see it or not.
"RoyMaster4 can at least come up with reasonable suggestions. I'm not saying that just because of Frank."
Translation: "I don't like your ideas because they work against my bias, but I like RoyMaster's ideas because he supports Frank West."
My ideas ARE reasonable. You just fail to comprehend them due to the cloud of bias that forms around you. I mean really. You are the minority when it comes to my ideas. My ideas have much support.
While yours usually get backlash.
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dry
Forum Regular
sup
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Post by dry on Aug 6, 2011 14:55:13 GMT -5
That last post made me lol. In fact, the whole argument's making me lol. And not in a good way. Sorry to be the Sheldon Cooper of this thread, but you guys are being pathetic =\. Seriously, there are 70-80 characters planned for the final game; chances are every character on this poll will make it.
@goldenyuitsin:
It's cool that you have all the original Pokemon cartridges, but that doesn't mean you're gonna be definitely right. Personally, I think the Rockets don't start off as the obvious bad guys, but by the time you get to the 8th gym, the entire crew recognises you as "that tough kid". However, the champion battle is against your rival, and final bosses are usually seen as "the bad guys". So in a way, both sides of the argument are right about the Pokemon villains. The rival is the main villain, and Giovanni is also the main villain. There are three parties in Pokemon, not just two. It's like the Shadow the Hedgehog games; on one side you have Shadow, on another side you have Sonic, on the last side you have Eggman and that dark dude.
Also, Pokemon types shouldn't really affect whether they are in or not. We want originality and uniqueness in each and every character, yeah, but just because they have the same typing, doesn't mean they're gonna be too similar to each other. Caterpie and Volcarona are the same type, but how are they similar to each other in anyway? Just like Deoxys and Mewtwo; one uses cosmic power and sci-fi themed moves, the other uses dark magic. IMO they'll be unique and different enough.
When you say moveset potential, are you taking into account the fact that you can just invent your own moves for characters? When someone chose Captain Falcon for the original SSB, he had literally no moves to show, and they still managed to kit him out with a full-out moveset.
It's true that the SSB crew had professional graphics artists and sound designers, which kinda made things easier for them. But still, we can nab a moveset out of the sprites we have. For example, Eggplant Wizard. Standard Special will obviously be the eggplant. Side Special? Have him let off a Shemum, kinda like Bomberman's bomb kick. Up Special? Have him flying up on a Monolith, Specknose or another iconic flying enemy. Down Special? Give him the effects that Pit receives when healing in a hospital, and make it a unique move that can heal. If you guys set your mind to making a moveset, you can do so for almost any character in any game. Ristar didn't have a recovery move from his own game; that's when you had the idea of the Star Crank as a move. Mach Rider had no up or down special either, so you made them up, and now he's a fully-fledged smash bros character. No matter what character you decide to stick into this game, I'm sure you can make a moveset for them.
tl;dr: lol this argument is jks. rival and giovanni are both villains, think shadow games. same types =/= unoriginal. make your own moves up if they don't have any.
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