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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 5, 2011 1:34:25 GMT -5
Aero's deserving. And that's why Representation should be a 5. It's one of the best platformers on the SNES and Genesis. I'd give him a 3, as despite it IS a really good platformer, barely anyone knows about him.Moveset Potential is an easy 5 (he can do many things in gameplay) as well as uniqueness (just look at him). I'd give uniqueness a 4 Phantom and I have him a grade of 90. I think that fits well. Aero would be a fun character, but NiGHTS is still better. Representation: 4: It gives us another non-sonic sega rep, and at that probably one of the most popular and unique. Moveset Potential: 5: Acrobatics, the star loops, being celestial, being able to combine with a body, flying around all the time, grabbing an enemy mid-air for a mid-air throw, plus its air moves are already done, from the game. Uniqueness: 5: Nights, like mentioned above, is acrobatic, and at that more acrobatic than Aero, a nightmaren of unkown gender that can play a flute without a flute at that, can join with another person to help the world, and at that the world in their dreams, preventing nightmares from the people of the world and stopping villains from making people forever in a nightmare. Popularity: 5: NiGHTS had a game for the Wii, boosting its popularity greatly, a cameo appearance in Sonic DX, was a playable character in Sonic Riders and its sequal, there was a chao baby based on NiGHTS appearance, was playable in Sonic Superstars Tennis, a cameo appearance in Sonic Adventure 2 in the first stage in a billboard, Shadow the Hedgehog as a billboard, she's also in Sonic pinball party, sonic shuffle, billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg as an egg creature, Sega Superstars with the eyetoy, was the flagman in Sonic and Sega Super stars racing, and also made a guest appearance in fantasy star online. Basically, if you know Sega, you HAVE to know NiGHTS. Please don't make duplicate posts in separate threads. You can't take one of your posts from another thread, paste it into a reply in this thread, and use that as your entire post. |
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 5, 2011 2:18:02 GMT -5
Please don't make duplicate posts in separate threads. You can't take one of your posts from another thread, paste it into a reply in this thread, and use that as your entire post. Actually, it isn't the same exact post. Although I would excuse such posts if they were quoted. Anywho, I actually agree with the Nights grading. I ended up giving "it" a 90. Aero is cool, but I would go with Nights first. If we can have both, excellent! |
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 5, 2011 7:54:54 GMT -5
Both would be great. If we had one, it would be Nights.
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 5, 2011 22:17:24 GMT -5
You have to keep in mind, though, that representation is the most crucial area of the grading system, and Nights's games were not as well received critically as those represented by the characters who are on the roster currently. Also, the use of supernatural powers has become a bit of a cliche for Smash characters, and Aero is even more eccentric than many of the characters that we've come up with.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 5, 2011 22:29:05 GMT -5
Yeah, because EVERYBODY loves Waluigi....(I like him, but he IS one of the most hated Mario characters...)
And Mach Rider was a HUGE CRITICAL success...
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 6, 2011 0:32:29 GMT -5
Yeah, because EVERYBODY loves Waluigi....(I like him, but he IS one of the most hated Mario characters...) And Mach Rider was a HUGE CRITICAL success... Hey, they're already in the game, and probably two of the most popular SSBC newcomers. And, yeah, such a critical success was Ice Climber, too. |
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 6, 2011 10:00:30 GMT -5
^Win.
Think about it for a second. Waluigi represents the N64 version of Mario Tennis- one of the best Mario Sports titles there has ever been. It was well received and Waluigi completes the Mario Bros-Wario Bros rivalry. It was only logical.
Mach Rider? Mach Rider has a Legacy section on his Wikipedia page. Why do you think they whipped up an epic remix of his theme song for Melee? Did his famous Mach Bike not appear in Mario Kart Wii? He's very unique too.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 6, 2011 19:09:23 GMT -5
^Win. Think about it for a second. Waluigi represents the N64 version of Mario Tennis- one of the best Mario Sports titles there has ever been. It was well received and Waluigi completes the Mario Bros-Wario Bros rivalry. It was only logical. Mach Rider? Mach Rider has a Legacy section on his Wikipedia page. Why do you think they whipped up an epic remix of his theme song for Melee? Did his famous Mach Bike not appear in Mario Kart Wii? He's very unique too. That still doesn't change the fact that Waluigi is considered a pointless character by numerous Mario fans, and only added as a tagalong to give a Wario-esque version of Luigi. Waluigi is one of my favorite characters in Mario, but even I realize that he's not that important or liked, and if he were to mysteriously disappear from the series, not many people would notice/care. And Wikipedia could be edited by ANYONE. And the reason why Mach Bike was in MKW was for the same reason as the Blue Falcon; the games they come from were high speed games on tracks. It had nothing to do with "Legacy". Laughing Dog has done more for legacy than Mach Rider EVER did. He was an icon, and not only that, but he was that one character that everybody loved to hate. And the reason they remixed his song: Because it was a tribute to what helped spawn F-Zero. That's why the song was on an F-Zero stage. I'm not saying I don't like these guys. Both Wally and Mach are in my Main List. I'm saying that they aren't good choices with Representation, which you said is the key thing. So clearly, Representation is NOT the key thing. Otherwise, Waluigi, Mach Rider, and Ristar wouldn't be in Crusade. |
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 6, 2011 20:14:56 GMT -5
The key is uniqueness. And this category is ripped to pieces by bias and being in a box and thinking about it.
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 7, 2011 1:01:16 GMT -5
I'm not saying I don't like these guys. Both Wally and Mach are in my Main List. I'm saying that they aren't good choices with Representation, which you said is the key thing. So clearly, Representation is NOT the key thing. Otherwise, Waluigi, Mach Rider, and Ristar wouldn't be in Crusade. Representation is definitely the key element. When Doc and I revamped the roster a few months ago, our primary focus was to find characters from the right games - games that should have a representative in SSBC. The reason popularity, uniqueness, and moveset potential are not as significant is because playing SSBC is all about the experience of playing characters from games that we, as gamers, have fallen in love with and games that have become a part of our lives. When I picture the finished project, I see characters from the games that have offered the most gripping, entertaining, and innovative experiences in gaming history uniting in a single game - all playable, so we can relive those experiences all at one time... SSBC should be reminiscent of games like Super Mario Bros. 3, Sonic 2, Super Metroid, Star Fox 64, Kirby's Adventure, Sin and Punishment, Ristar, F-Zero X, Mach Rider, or Zelda: Ocarina of Time... though characters from newer great games also make appearances, it is the nostalgia of playing characters that represent the most influential and incredible gaming experiences of all time that makes Super Smash Bros what it was always meant to be. Popularity, moveset potential, and uniqueness are all simply elements that determine a character's viability... but without that representation, the character means nothing to the gaming experience. A character can be famous worldwide, have tons of options for moves, be unlike any other character, but at the same time, be from a mediocre game. Or, a character could be overlooked, limited in moveset options, look and play similarly to other characters, but be from an amazing game. The characters we need, however, are those that represent incredible games and are popular, offer moveset potential, and are unique. But what is most crucial, of course, is what specific game(s) and gaming experience a character represents. As far as Waluigi goes, I sort of consider him an exception to representing one of the "greatest games of all time", even though many of the games he represents were very good and successful, such as Mario Tennis, Mario Strikers: Charged, etc. But as Doc stated before, Waluigi completes the Mario-Luigi-Wario-Waluigi quartet, and because of that, he is significant to the representation of the Mario series. |
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 7, 2011 7:19:10 GMT -5
I would guess that Crusade was about having fun.
How do you have fun if only a handful of characters are unique, or true to their game.
And if you're looking for popular, great games, moveset potential, and unique, where'd you get Aero out of that?
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 7, 2011 7:52:17 GMT -5
@phantom: Then we need Daisy, as she completes the Princess Trio. (and was part of the Princess Duo long before Rosalina showed up.)
The excuse I would put for Waluigi is this: It's Waluigi. WAA. Waluigi has recieved more popularity for his overexaggerated caricature in Brawl in the Family. Not only that, but this gives people that hate him a chance to beat him up. And likewise it gives his fans a chance to be Mr. Mean I Hate Green.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 7, 2011 8:12:00 GMT -5
I don't think you understand anything Phantom just told you after reading that Daisy thing. Go back and re-read it. Waluigi is MUCH more unique than Daisy. And BitF most likely did not help Waluigi gain any popularity whatsoever.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 7, 2011 8:14:20 GMT -5
I think that uniqueness, representation, moveset potential and popularity are all equally balanced as far as which is most important since each element each plays an important key role when it comes down to deciding if a character should be made playable or not. I doubt one is far more important than the other. Just my opinion
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on Apr 7, 2011 10:25:10 GMT -5
They are balanced, but we really think about Representation.
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Post by falcon8r on Apr 7, 2011 10:45:26 GMT -5
To be honest, I just look at all the major video game franchises, with an emphasis on Nintendo, try to find the best ones, figure out if the best characters are spritable, and then pick! However, Daisy is sort of unnecessary IMO. If this were "Super Smash Bros. - Mario Edition", then fine, Daisy would be in. But we have to make room for other characters from other series. The reason Waluigi is in is because he's well-known, quirky, and DEFINITELY unique from the other Mario characters. Daisy is not so different from Peach and would require a lot of imagination to make her own moveset.
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 7, 2011 11:31:58 GMT -5
I think that uniqueness, representation, moveset potential and popularity are all equally balanced as far as which is most important since each element each plays an important key role when it comes down to deciding if a character should be made playable or not. I doubt one is far more important than the other. Just my opinion And why exactly? Did you even read my post or did you just ignore it? I even stated that popularity, moveset potential, and uniqueness are important - now you tell me why representation is not more important. |
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 7, 2011 11:55:47 GMT -5
I think that uniqueness, representation, moveset potential and popularity are all equally balanced as far as which is most important since each element each plays an important key role when it comes down to deciding if a character should be made playable or not. I doubt one is far more important than the other. Just my opinion And why exactly? Did you even read my post or did you just ignore it? I even stated that popularity, moveset potential, and uniqueness are important - now you tell me why representation is not more important. I said that all those categories are all equal, never said anything is less important. And I didnt ignore the post, probably missed it or forgot it ;D. I think that all areas of including a character are all equally important cause for example, you dont want to add someone who is popular, yet not moveset potential, someone unique yet still still not a good representative, etc. so why not add in good choices that has a well balanced amount of those categories instead of someone who only has 3/4 |
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Post by PhantomVII on Apr 7, 2011 12:15:52 GMT -5
I said that all those categories are all equal, never said anything is less important. And I didnt ignore the post, probably missed it or forgot it ;D. I think that all areas of including a character are all equally important cause for example, you dont want to add someone who is popular, yet not moveset potential, someone unique yet still still not a good representative, etc. so why not add in good choices that has a well balanced amount of those categories instead of someone who only has 3/4 Well, that is exactly why I invented the scoring system. My point, however, is that representation has more priority than the other three because it is more important that we include characters from the best games than popular, moveset viable, and unique characters, though these three categories are important as well. And btw, I didn't say that you thought representation was less important, just equal to the other three. |
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 7, 2011 12:28:41 GMT -5
In a way I can agree with this and its understandable cause after all, representation is the main thing that keeps the roster balanced is the representation. And it helps bring in these many different franchises together rather than just the main mascots or best known series. So no disagreement here. Btw I shouldve been more specific on that last post. I know you didnt say that, I was speaking in general. Sorry for that misunderstanding
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