|
|
Post by El Maiz on May 15, 2011 8:18:21 GMT -5
Wahoo! Captain Falcon buffs!
I'll be able to play him again when I replace my computer upstairs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zeldasmash on May 15, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -5
Since there seems to be no one disagreeing i will change this pages name to Official Tier List v0.6
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 15, 2011 14:00:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on May 15, 2011 22:59:44 GMT -5
wtf is happening here o-o
In first place, this is not Official, this is your personal valoration with some buffs. The official tier list will be done by the Crusade BB.
Well, in second place, ois my turn to contribute XDDDDDD
Wellgoku and kristal are good pj, but they are not top tier (definitely high, but they are not better than fox or metaknight. And oh boy... why snake is bottom tier o-o He have strong aerials, good projectiles and spammable moves, he is high tier. The same goes for Lucas and lucario. Bomberman is too high, is true, he haves a lot of projectiles, but he is too gimpable.
wel, thats my contribution for the moment xD
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 15, 2011 23:24:44 GMT -5
What were you saying? Meh, I think it's as close to official as it gets. I think the Tier List should be a community thing. When the head coder says it's "as close to official as it gets", usually that means it's good. And the back room isn't open yet, since werekill's "too busy to get the apps done". Goku's broken. Krystal, IMO, is the only one that has a 45/55 matchup against Goku since she can cancel his projectiles or mindgame him while getting hit (Kamehameha doesn't cancel the Demon Sniper, so using D-special right before Kamehameha will cause him to get stunned in the middle). Her U-Special can screw over his f-air spike since it has high priority and invincibility. Also, I would imagine it would be pretty humiliating for Goku to use Kamehameha and be Arsed* in the middle of it. Despite all this, he has better KO attacks overall, as well as Kaioken. The closest I can think to having a 45/55 matchup with Goku are Bomberman (worse projectile spamming than Goku) and Ryu/Evil Ryu (again, projectile spamming to an extent, but they have a counter and great close-up game), but they're more like 40/60. Snake's bottom tier because a number of his moves don't work quite as well as they do in Brawl. This'll change for the 0.7 list since Falcon fixed most of the issues, last I checked. Lucario likely will not change. You just think Lucas should be high because of his stun tricks, and I don't think they work in 0.7. *Arsed is of course short for Arse of Awesome |
|
ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
|
Post by ensane on May 15, 2011 23:27:17 GMT -5
I personally agree with you on krystal and bomberman, but I can also see why they would be that high. They were saying it would be official if no one had a problem with it, as you clearly do. That was stated earlier in the thread. In any case it's only applicable to v0.6 (which is why I don't care much about it XD)
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on May 16, 2011 0:12:55 GMT -5
What were you saying? Meh, I think it's as close to official as it gets. I think the Tier List should be a community thing. When the head coder says it's "as close to official as it gets", usually that means it's good. And the back room isn't open yet, since werekill's "too busy to get the apps done". Goku's broken. Krystal, IMO, is the only one that has a 45/55 matchup against Goku since she can cancel his projectiles or mindgame him while getting hit (Kamehameha doesn't cancel the Demon Sniper, so using D-special right before Kamehameha will cause him to get stunned in the middle). Her U-Special can screw over his f-air spike since it has high priority and invincibility. Also, I would imagine it would be pretty humiliating for Goku to use Kamehameha and be Arsed* in the middle of it. Despite all this, he has better KO attacks overall, as well as Kaioken. The closest I can think to having a 45/55 matchup with Goku are Bomberman (worse projectile spamming than Goku) and Ryu/Evil Ryu (again, projectile spamming to an extent, but they have a counter and great close-up game), but they're more like 40/60. Snake's bottom tier because a number of his moves don't work quite as well as they do in Brawl. This'll change for the 0.7 list since Falcon fixed most of the issues, last I checked. Lucario likely will not change. You just think Lucas should be high because of his stun tricks, and I don't think they work in 0.7. *Arsed is of course short for Arse of Awesome Metaknight was nerfed and hi still kick ass, fox is like brawl fox (he sucks) but in crusade he rulz, and goku is not that good, he have broken moves but he is BIG, he is gimpable, his recovery is not that good and his moves are full of lag (anybody says snake, anybody???) Snake deserves a high spot cause Ungimpable recovery (you can hit him with an smash attacks while he is getting back and nothing is gonna happnes him  ) Almost every moves leads to an KO Spammable moves (grenades,up smash, ftilt, aaa, bair, nair, uair, dtilt, u tilt ) Great priority Lucas is high tier too cause he have a good recovery (yeah, is good, the hard things is hit with the pk thunder but thats cause the keyboard xD) Infinite combos (Side B, you cant scape, if you get hityou can say good BYE) good aerials good finishers EPIC Zair ( Man, it GRABS you in midair, is the perfect edgeguard move) Lucario deserves his high spot cause Crusade Cancel, the same goes for ryu, their CC are the most useful in the game |
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 16, 2011 0:45:02 GMT -5
I'm just going to put this out there:
Crusade cancel will NOT be considered when formulating tier lists. If that were the case, Jiggs would be in the BROKEN broken tier (SSS) and everyone else would be screwed.
I've killed Snake by hitting him with a s-special and then a B-air, since that does enough damage to get him out of his u-special. That, or a very-easily sweetspotted D-air.
EDIT: Krystal's D-special can take him directly out of his u-special. I would assume the same works for all electric-stun attacks.
And like I just said, the only reason Lucas would be up there is stun tricks. Things like that would be banned in competitive play (chain grabs, anyone?).
|
|
|
|
Post by member 777 on May 16, 2011 0:59:08 GMT -5
ness should be higher than Lucas
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on May 16, 2011 1:03:49 GMT -5
I'm just going to put this out there: Crusade cancel will NOT be considered when formulating tier lists. If that were the case, Jiggs would be in the BROKEN broken tier (SSS) and everyone else would be screwed. I've killed Snake by hitting him with a s-special and then a B-air, since that does enough damage to get him out of his u-special. That, or a very-easily sweetspotted D-air. EDIT: Krystal's D-special can take him directly out of his u-special. I would assume the same works for all electric-stun attacks. And like I just said, the only reason Lucas would be up there is stun tricks. Things like that would be banned in competitive play (chain grabs, anyone?). Why jiggd would be broken?? Have you seen rest hitbox  ? it haves the size of a POINT while you are crouching. So lets ignore the fact that Slope Slide, Ledge cancel, Soul Stun, reverse spin dash exist and lets make a tier list without AT. Thats sir, is incorrect, if you are gonna make a tier tier list of a game you have to consider every factor, and thats include the Advanced Techniques. And no :S How ness is higher than Lucas? EDIT: Chaingrabs are not banned lulz Wobbling is banned, but thats another history. |
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 16, 2011 1:14:22 GMT -5
Chaingrabs that deal past 100% are banned however. You really should look further into these things than the first 5 lines. And they don't exist in Crusade in the first place.
Jiggs would be broken because, last time I checked, you can cancel a Rest after it's hit. The fact that you can use Rest and then continue fighting instantly would make her broken. The only downside is you probably wouldn't heal.
I guarantee you, if we actually had a match in real life, I'd beat your Crusade Cancel into the ground.
And half the "advanced techniques" you mentioned will be gone in the next version and nobody but you has bothered to practice them.
Also, I'm pretty sure Ness is higher than Lucas because of his f-smash reflector and FS, which is far superior to PK Star Storm.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felipe_9595 on May 16, 2011 1:25:51 GMT -5
Chaingrabs that deal past 100% are banned however. You really should look further into these things than the first 5 lines. And they don't exist in Crusade in the first place. Jiggs would be broken because, last time I checked, you can cancel a Rest after it's hit. The fact that you can use Rest and then continue fighting instantly would make her broken. The only downside is you probably wouldn't heal. I guarantee you, if we actually had a match in real life, I'd beat your Crusade Cancel into the ground. And half the "advanced techniques" you mentioned will be gone in the next version and nobody but you has bothered to practice them. Also, I'm pretty sure Ness is higher than Lucas because of his f-smash reflector and FS, which is far superior to PK Star Storm. Incorrect ruling, every chain grab must finish before 300%, not 100%. Is almost impossible to cc a rest and hitting cause you need to be almost INSIDE your opponent (Yesh, i did the video, but it took me like 1 hour to connect the cc rest) Crusade Cancel only, i havent heard anything about Slope SLide or reverse spin dash. lulz, FInal SMashes are like items, for metagame they will be banned. and lulz no, ness is not better than lucas, the only good finisher he have are his grabs and his fsmash, lucas have dsmash, f smash, u smash, his grabs dair (Spike) , bair (spike). |
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 16, 2011 1:51:32 GMT -5
I got the chain-grab part from this:
You've just proved my point. It's possible, therefore if perfected it would be broken. It takes most people more than an hour to learn how to Wavedash properly.
I neglected to notice the spin dash thing in the list. I don't think that one in particular is removed, but I'm pretty sure the others are.
And whoever said Final Smashes would be banned? Nobody. I for one would rather have Final Smashes in.
|
|
ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
|
Post by ensane on May 16, 2011 5:54:17 GMT -5
Felipe is right about chaingrabs: they are allowed up to 300% which is determined "enough to guarantee a KO" whether that's good or bad is another issue. (Wall infinites not allowed, nor D3's standing infinite on DK). Considering Crusade has only a few low percent grab chains, I doubt this will be an issue
Felipe, considering CC and Ledge Canel are removed in v0.7 is why it is presumably banned, unlike reverse spin dash and the others. Wasn't Slope Slide a subset of CC? If not I suppose it's fine, unless Falcon says no. XD
Detta, Final Smashes are ridiculous at times. If FS are allowed in competitive play, it will turn into a contest of "who can hit the other more and land an FS." They may not be as random as in Brawl, but they still change the moveset mid battle and make it impossible to play Samus or ZSS properly.
Also @detta: Krystal isn't that high just because of Goku is she? In that case T. Link should be higher, too. Matchups with the top character don't determine tier placement. (Snake in Brawl was an exception; he had good or even matchups with about half the cast)
|
|
|
|
Post by El Maiz on May 16, 2011 7:17:38 GMT -5
Krystal owns almost everyone in the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 16, 2011 7:31:50 GMT -5
That right there, Maiz. Krystal's there because she has good matchups on most characters. The fact that she's the only one with a good matchup against Goku is only a very small contributing factor.
Of course there are other reasons such as her spacing abilities, invincible recovery, Demon Sniper, high-priority S-Special, and of course, the Arse of Awesome.
|
|
|
|
Post by DGN on May 16, 2011 10:18:08 GMT -5
Actually, Ristar can handle Goku pretty well; not as good as Krystal, but pretty good.
As well as that, Meta Knight handles Goku 50/50; Meta Knight tries to stick in with moves close-range, and Goku tries to get away to charge his kaioken or spam his projectiles.
|
|
ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
|
Post by ensane on May 16, 2011 12:45:55 GMT -5
I don,t really have much issue beating her wth T. Link. Especially offstage, it' almost certain death for her. Boomerang cancels staff, and they're sinilarly good hand to hand.
|
|
|
|
Post by falcon8r on May 16, 2011 19:23:49 GMT -5
Krystal is good, to be sure. I like playing as her.
I'm actually impressed with Jiggs's placement. What led you to put her up there?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dettadeus on May 16, 2011 19:34:20 GMT -5
I put her as high as she is because Sing has great range and Rest is very powerful, and her FS is amazing.
Even without counting Final Smashes, she's still got edgeguarding going for her. If she's made to be more like Melee, then you have to remember that she was, what, 6th in the most recent tier list? Not to mention Rest heals now, and can be used in place of a Taunt for Star KOs.
|
|
)
? it haves the size of a POINT while you are crouching. So lets ignore the fact that Slope Slide, Ledge cancel, Soul Stun, reverse spin dash exist and lets make a tier list without AT.