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Post by El Maiz on May 16, 2011 19:36:16 GMT -5
I don't see why we wouldn't count FSs, at least once Bomberman and Wario's get fixed.
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ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
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Post by ensane on May 16, 2011 19:47:41 GMT -5
I put her as high as she is because Sing has great range and Rest is very powerful, and her FS is amazing. Even without counting Final Smashes, she's still got edgeguarding going for her. If she's made to be more like Melee, then you have to remember that she was, what, 6th in the most recent tier list? Not to mention Rest heals now, and can be used in place of a Taunt for Star KOs. Yeah, Sing actually interrupts attack frames, so it's a lot more viable. |
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 15:23:40 GMT -5
I put her as high as she is because Sing has great range and Rest is very powerful, and her FS is amazing. Even without counting Final Smashes, she's still got edgeguarding going for her. If she's made to be more like Melee, then you have to remember that she was, what, 6th in the most recent tier list? Not to mention Rest heals now, and can be used in place of a Taunt for Star KOs. Jiggs is BAD. His is Floatie but at the same time he falls like a fast faller. His back air and fair are not like melee (In melee this both attacks have disjointed hitboxes, leading to something called "Wall of Pain" thats why Jiggs is Third, no Sixth on the last tier list). plus, his recovery is Worse (Pound doesnt add vertical recovery, on melee you could past below final and end on the satge again thank to this. In crusade thats not possible) Sing is a horrible attack, it only affact enemy on a certain range THAT ARE GORUNDED. It leaves you oppen to any aerial. And rest doesnt have the same KB as melee, is more like Brawl Rest but bit more powerful, the heal thing is good but his hitbox is even smaller than before, it doesnt care it heals if you dont hit, cause you are gonna get punished either way. In conclusion, Jiggsz is Floatier but at the same time more heavy, all his attacks were nerfed, his recovery was nerfed too and cannot combo well, so, jiggz doesnt deserve a place on high (but, well, in this list snake is bottom tier so XDDDDDDDD) |
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 15:32:51 GMT -5
Jiggs doesn't fall fast.
And you CAN rise with Pound, IIRC.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 15:36:05 GMT -5
maiz, have you played melee??? This jiggs fall like THAT jiigs (with the diference crusade gravity is near to brawl gravity XP) Rise Pund doesnt rise you like it does on melee, his Attacks were nerfed and he have less priority, he doesnt deserve be high tier.
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 15:36:44 GMT -5
Are you using fast-fall?
And I try not to play Melee.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 15:41:18 GMT -5
Maiz, sigh, Jiglypuff is FLOATIE but he have the falling speed of a HEAVY
This is a melee videos, Cruade Jigglypuff fall faste than Melee Jiglypuff (and melee have more gravity than crusade)
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 15:45:06 GMT -5
Floaty means they fall slowly.
It literally cannot be both.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 15:47:45 GMT -5
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 15:51:25 GMT -5
If they are a Heavyweight, it reduces HORIZONTAL knockback. NOT Vertical, and it has no effect on falling speed.
Fast falling characters, like Captain Falcon and Fox, are the ones with reduced vertical knockback. It is the OPPOSITE of floaty.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 15:54:19 GMT -5
Bad maiz, if you are heavyweight your vertical knocback will be reduced
"Additionally, falling speed directly affects the vertical component of attacks' knockback in combination with weight. Attacks of upward trajectory knock back slow-falling, floaty characters more than they knock back fast-fallers. However, a floaty heavyweight will be harder to KO vertically than a floaty lightweight. Though both falling speed and weight affect knockback, they are independent of each other - a fast-falling character is not necessarily heavy, and vice versa. Samus and Fox are notable examples to this."
And that proves my points, Jigglypuff is FLoatier but a heavy (well, not heavy, he is like, medium weight XD) on crusade
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 16:00:23 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Jiggs is both the floatiest and lightest.
I WAS wrong about the knockback reduction, but calling me "bad" was unneeded.
Being heay still doesn't affect falling speed. ie. Samus.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 16:06:28 GMT -5
No, i mean, bad statement, not "you are bad" XDDDDDD
But it affects Knockback. Jiggs is harder to kill, but at the same time his falling sppe increased
(well, i dont know how Falcon coded the formula of Knockback/falling speed so we have to ask to him how he did it)
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Post by Dettadeus on May 17, 2011 17:09:21 GMT -5
Shut. Up. I only used Melee as a reference, not how it affects this tier list, since it doesn't.
Correct, Rising Pound doesn't work. However, Roll Out, for one, allows you to come out of it after hitting, even if you're in the air. This means no falling to your doom if you hit at the edge.
Sure, Sing only hits grounded opponents, but for one, Ledge Singing. Bam, problem solved. Second, Fast Falling a Sing reduces the risk, especially when moving back and forth rapidly.
Third, if someone's charging a Smash attack, Sing. Boom. Screwed.
And counting FSs, then Jigglypuff easily has the best edgeguarding game and can kill people around 10% with it.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 17:13:09 GMT -5
Shut. Up. I only used Melee as a reference, not how it affects this tier list, since it doesn't. Correct, Rising Pound doesn't work. However, Roll Out, for one, allows you to come out of it after hitting, even if you're in the air. This means no falling to your doom if you hit at the edge. Sure, Sing only hits grounded opponents, but for one, Ledge Singing. Bam, problem solved. Second, Fast Falling a Sing reduces the risk, especially when moving back and forth rapidly. Third, if someone's charging a Smash attack, Sing. Boom. Screwed. And counting FSs, then Jigglypuff easily has the best edgeguarding game and can kill people around 10% with it. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Everything you stated is Situational.Serious, you think you have the time to do a sing before your opponent release his Smash XDDDDDDD? Cool Story yeah, roll out is good recovery, but its the smae thing than brawl and melee, his recovery si wrose for rising pound  Fast Falling a sing doesnt cancel any of the lag you have LOL The only diference is.... nothing, there is no diference Lulz Counting Final Smashes is not a possibility in metagame yeah, i am a troll, but at least i know why i am talking about. |
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Post by Dettadeus on May 17, 2011 17:31:35 GMT -5
Now I'll ask you this: Why would we disregard how much time Falcon's put into coding all these Final Smashes? I honestly think that if the majority of people would rather have Final Smashes in official rulesets, then there's no reason to leave them out.
Not to mention that final smashes are fun ;D
Besides the stuff I told you, you could go and check Falcon's guide for Jigglypuff. A few of her smashes are among the strongest in the game as well.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 17:34:09 GMT -5
I havent sayd FS are funny, they are pretty funny, but they cant be on a competitive ruleset. I dont know but you yought by my comment i play all my matchs 1-vs-1-on final-no-items. Thans not true, i love playiong with items and doing some crazy stuff on brawl/melee ( custom stages, changed ratios, etc) , but they dont belong to competitive ruleset because the random/lucky factor.
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Post by Dettadeus on May 17, 2011 17:44:14 GMT -5
But in Crusade, Final Smashes aren't an item that can only be obtained by one person; both people can use their Final Smash, granted that they deal or receive enough damage for it to activate. It's not random or lucky in this game.
Perhaps the topic of Final Smashes in competitive play will be discussed in the BR when it opens, but for the time being I'll just let the topic lie since we're not getting anywhere with only two people.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on May 17, 2011 17:47:43 GMT -5
yeah thats true, 2 people cant work alone on a Tier List, is almost impossible.
The problem with the Final Smashes are how unbalanced they are between characters, someone guarantee you a KO, others Heals you, other Just dont do nothing XD. Other problem is how the bar is filled, someone can just spam projectiles and fill his bar in this way.
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Post by El Maiz on May 17, 2011 19:03:31 GMT -5
No, every FS does something.
Give me an example of one that doesn't.
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Do you know the term heavyweight??? Sme characters are Floatie Heavyweight 
