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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on May 18, 2011 17:37:07 GMT -5
Well, first come, first serve, so I'll do Duck Hunt Dog.
Representation: Duck Hunt is one of the biggest classics ever made. It introduced the Zapper and made a big impact on gaming history.
5
Popularity: Oh, that dog. Everyone knows that dog. That laughing Dog just to middle-finger ya whenever you fail, or to choke the living crap out of the ducks you just shot. We all know him and that infamous laugh. Even people outside the gaming community do. Everyone wanted to shoot him too.
5
Viability: Just because Ivysaur worked on 4 legs doesn't mean the Dog can. In fact, there aren't many moves the Dog could actually use. Throwing clay discs and ducks are all that make sense, but he didn't have anything to do with the clay discs.
1.5
Uniqueness: There's not anyone he can be a clone of because there's nothing he can do. Fighting for him is a little unnatural.
1.5
13/20
FINAL SCORE: 65/100
He's not fit for Smash. I love the Duck Hunt Dog and I love Duck Hunt, but being a character is not how he should be represented, but he'll be somewhere...somewhere...
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on May 18, 2011 17:37:34 GMT -5
Alright, so with Snake, Simon, and the rumored Bill, that's 3. That's HALF of what SEGA and Capcom have. There should be a 4th Konami character; Raiden.
And a Specials list is NOT going to convince us why Rival Trainer is a good choice. Pretty much ANY Pokemon except for ones limited in attacks can be given a moveset.
The Pokemon that DO get in this game are ones that actually make sense. Blue/Gary using Gengar, Scizor, and Aggron? Something a fanboy would do. Hell, I could do the same thing and give Lance Druddigon, Feraligatr, and Absol and it have the same problem; using 3 of my favorites regardless of how much they make sense and slapping them onto a Trainer and expecting everyone to be fine with it.
And like I said:
"Don't give me the crap that "Oh, one's a Fighting type, one's a Bug type, and one's a Rock type". Doesn't change the fact that THEY ARE ALL STEEL TYPE. You are flat out LYING when you say that no Pokemon has the same type. There are THREE that do, and two of them are Pokemon YOU'RE adding."
Read it again.
Done? Good.
Now READ IT AGAIN.
I already covered that p.o.s. of an argument.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on May 18, 2011 17:50:38 GMT -5
Not the Principal Type, my friend. If a Pokemon is 2 types together, one is just a secondary type.
And why should there be a 4th Konami at all? Let alone Raiden. I honestly find Alucard a much better rep.
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Post by El Maiz on May 18, 2011 17:59:55 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure everyone else finds the main character of the main franchise pretty good.
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Post by Werekill on May 18, 2011 19:15:23 GMT -5
I'm actually all for replacing protoman with Zero, but I'll wait until Phantom posts and do a point-by-point rebuttal.
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Post by Dettadeus on May 18, 2011 19:17:34 GMT -5
Might as well join in on the fun. I don't recall you (DMX) or Phantom ever grading the Minister. Phantom turned him down before you guys started grading, and I looked through your last thousand posts and didn't find anything, as well as my PMs. Try grading him as an option for DLC, since I hardly even care if you make room for him anymore since you guys aren't paying attention to what I'm telling you. I would love if Phantom joined in on this too, since I would like to know he actually payed attention to the PMs I sent him. Keep these things in mind while grading him please: 1. He actually does represent Super Smash Brothers Brawl. 2. I'm re-working his moveset to include Shadow Bugs and other parts of the Subspace Army. 3. Perhaps read this page when considering representation as well: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl#Reception_and_legacyAnd also keep in mind that, last I checked, most people that would play the game haven't played with a R.O.B., and thus being an alt-select cannot ruin any nostalgia. |
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Post by StayPuft on May 18, 2011 20:21:51 GMT -5
Non-Sonic SEGA rep? Sketch Turner, lol.
I'm also heavily against Rival Trainer, but I'll talk about him later.
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ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
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Post by ensane on May 18, 2011 20:27:37 GMT -5
Shadow has been confirmed on the normal roster, ensane. DMX, thanks for revealing that our speculation was correct, and Bill Rizer from Contra is in the game! XD Also, DMX, the most recent game of Monkey Ball had a smash-esque mini game inside, from which he could use those moves. There's also a number of other moves from the games he could use as well. I'd suggest looking at videos on youtube if possible. Besides, I think we already have a side smash-They use the punching glove that goes out far, that they had in a minigame. Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you grade Vectorman? I'd suggest watching videos from a vast range of the levels, first, though. I'd also like to see your scores for Shadow. Lol, that's what I get for not reading enough posts.  |
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Post by falcon8r on May 18, 2011 21:47:58 GMT -5
ALL RIGHT. Here are my thoughts on this whole thing:
Second Metal Gear rep - Obviously! We definitely need another one! Metal Gear is a HUGE franchise. My vote goes to Gray Fox. He's got the coolness factor, and we're getting help on spriting him from PhantomHP IIRC.
Rival Trainer - I would have to say I'm leaning towards Mudkip - er, I mean, Hoenn Trainer. All three of those Pokemon are very popular, and they represent the 3rd generation, which is currently not represented.
Zero vs. Protoman - Zero wins. He's been in more games, is more popular, and frankly, I would feel bad if we had Protoman and NOT Zero. It would be like having Bowser Jr. but not Bowser.
Non-Sonic Sega reps - It's painful, but I have to say Golden has a point. Aiai seems like an okay choice, but I'd take Nights over Aiai because Nights is a more unique character compared to other Smashers. Although Vectorman is not a bad choice, Ristar's already in the game. I'd say we have one more non-Sonic rep and can either Eggman or Shadow. Most likely Eggman.
And DMX, your arguments for Rival Trainer are bold, but that's about it. I now see the light that is OTHER POSSIBILITIES. Meowth would be tons of fun, and Hoenn Trainer (aka May) would still be another Trainer, but with more popular Pokemon.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on May 18, 2011 22:12:06 GMT -5
Not the Principal Type, my friend. If a Pokemon is 2 types together, one is just a secondary type. And why should there be a 4th Konami at all? Let alone Raiden. I honestly find Alucard a much better rep. Yeah, because ignoring the fact that MGS was the FIRST 3rd Party to be in Smash is the right thing to do. Raiden is the new star of the series because *SPOILERS*Old Snake retired*END SPOILERS*, and can do pretty much anything that Gray Fox, another highly requested character can do and more. And Alucard? Now you're playing favortisim. I don't care much for MGS, but even I know when a series is deserving of a second character. Megaman is, but not before MGS, the first 3rd Party. And using "principal type" is just another BS excuse. The point of the matter is, you lied. You flatout said that none of the 11 playable Pokemon share a type, when three are Steel type. And by your logic, two Pokemon have Steel as a "secondary" type, so it's STILL lying. There is also still the problem that Aggron weighs almost 800lbs. which no existing character in Smash comes CLOSE to save for maybe Giga Bowser and possibly Ridley in Crusade. (However, Ridley uses his giant wings to make him fall slower, Aggron has nothing to prevent him from falling HARD. As I realized, Gengar is heavier than Ivysaur, so he isn't too light like I said. My point is moot about Gengar. And the other problem that they don't properly represent the games. I mean, you got Blue/Gary. That's fine in itself. You give him Gengar, Scizor, and Aggron. Not ok. He has NEVER used those Pokemon or any variations of them. And you say that he was added for nostalgia reasons, and yet I don't remember seeing Scizor or Aggron in the 1st Gen games that he got his fame from. I've learned to accept that Agumon is a poor choice. You need to accept that Rival Trainer (at least with the three Pokemon you chose) is a poor choice. EDIT: I've been falcon'd. (Ninja'd by Falcon) I'm glad that you agree with me on these issues. Although, I would have to argue that Raiden is a better choice, because he can have everything that Gray Fox has, and he's also the new star of the series. And while GF is dead, Raiden is not. Although, if Gray Fox actually did get in over Raiden, I'd live. MGS got it's second character. Not who I'd pick, but still a damn good choice. |
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phantomhp
Forum Regular
rogue artist
Posts: 389
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Post by phantomhp on May 19, 2011 0:07:20 GMT -5
Hey, I haven't done any work on that in a while actually! Maybe I'll find time later but mostly I'm waiting on my laptop.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on May 19, 2011 6:02:19 GMT -5
Just because Raiden starred in his own games does not mean we should automatically give him a spot. And no, I am not playing favoritism. Alucard has appeared on Nintendo consoles since the NES in Castlevania III and is still a popular character today. And Smash Bros, again, needs to be leaned over toward Nintendo. Raiden hasn't made much of an impact on Nintendo.
Aggron weighing 800lbs didn't stop him from going into battle in Pokemon, now did it? That's an ridiculous reason to drop him. Oh, and who said Red used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time? That's pretty much impossible unless you trade a bunch of times. Most people that play Pokemon own a Gengar, Scizor, or Aggron (usually all 3).
And I'm glad you've learned to accept the ridicule of Agumon. However, I can't say a good idea is poor.
Oh yes, Alucard is considered by many to be the best anti-hero ever in video game history. Haven't you played Symphony of the Night before?
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Post by DGN on May 19, 2011 6:13:12 GMT -5
Aggron weighing 800lbs didn't stop him from going into battle in Pokemon, now did it? That's an ridiculous reason to drop him. Oh, and who said Red used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time? That's pretty much impossible unless you trade a bunch of times. Most people that play Pokemon own a Gengar, Scizor, or Aggron (usually all 3). Yes, however, he's one of the slowest pokemon of them all; unless you used Rock Polish, he could be taken down within one Earthquake or fighting type move. Also, Red has used all of them at one time, whereas Gary has not. Oh yes, I greatly enjoyed it! However, I still believe Raiden would be better than Alucard, mainly because MGS is the main series of Konami. |
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ensane
Forum Regular
Posts: 379
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Post by ensane on May 19, 2011 6:22:43 GMT -5
And I'm glad you've learned to accept the ridicule of Agumon. However, I can't say a good idea is poor. That seemed a little uncalled for... Salt in wounds? XD I do like the idea of Alucard being in the game.Just because a series has 1 rep doesn't mean it needs another one. Alucard would be very unique and would give a Casltevania rep, a series that also goes way back. |
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Post by Dettadeus on May 19, 2011 7:30:21 GMT -5
Oh, and who said Red used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time? What. is. this. I. don't. even. Did you ever play Yellow version? You were given all three of the starters throughout the game. The first starter you receive is Charmander (hence he has a Charizard), the second you receive is Bulbasaur (hence he has an Ivysaur), and the third you receive is a Squirtle (hence it hadn't evolved). You get Charmander on the way to Bill's house, Bulbasaur (if I recall correctly) just before or after you beat Misty, and you get Squirtle right after you beat Lt. Surge. Not to mention the Red in G/S/C had all three fully evolved starters in his party. EDIT: And how did I miss this? This is a huge generalization. Sure, lots of people have all three because they were trying to complete their Pokedex. That's the point of the game.I own a battle-ready Gengar. I own a Scizor because of an event that was released to japanese 4th gen games, and I happened to have a JP Platinum; I haven't used it at all. I don't own an Aggron, and never have and never will, because I don't particularly like it being a slow Pokemon doubly weak to one of the most common moves in competitive play: Earthquake. |
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on May 19, 2011 7:54:00 GMT -5
Just because Raiden starred in his own games does not mean we should automatically give him a spot. And no, I am not playing favoritism. Alucard has appeared on Nintendo consoles since the NES in Castlevania III and is still a popular character today. And Smash Bros, again, needs to be leaned over toward Nintendo. Raiden hasn't made much of an impact on Nintendo. Same can be argued for Morrigan, who's only appearances on a Nintendo system have been SNK vs. Capcom and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. As well as Banjo-Kazooie, which is now owned by the enemy (Microsoft). More or less, you seem like a MGS-hater, and if it were up to you, there'd be no Snake in Brawl or Crusade.Aggron weighing 800lbs didn't stop him from going into battle in Pokemon, now did it? That's an ridiculous reason to drop him. Oh, and who said Red used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time? That's pretty much impossible unless you trade a bunch of times. Most people that play Pokemon own a Gengar, Scizor, or Aggron (usually all 3). Pokemon =/= Smash Bros. In Pokemon, you didn't fight each other off platforms. What a stupid response. And two things: Red has all three in Yellow version, arguably the most popular version of the old games, and in G/S/C/HG/SS he has all the fully evolved starters. Blue never had Gastly/Haunter/Gengar, Scyther/Scizor, or Aron/Lairon/Aggron. And once again, where are your statistics? Do you have PROOF that most players actually USE them? No reason is justified for those three.And I'm glad you've learned to accept the ridicule of Agumon. However, I can't say a good idea is poor. Completely uncalled for. I said he was a poor choice, not a ridiculous one. And you can't honestly say that Rival Trainer is a good idea. In your HEAD maybe, but that's where the idea should've stayed. As you can see, you have HEAVY opposition about him (for good reason). And it's not just the fourms. I've taken the idea around to see what others think about it. Pretty much most said that it was cool, but doesn't make the least bit of sense. And these guys aren't "idiots", there's Smash and Pokemon fans. Mostly Pokemon. Your choices for him are lousy and unjustified, and your arguments for him don't hold any water. If fact the only difference between Agumon and Rival Trainer is that one is by a developer, and thus gets in over better choices because of a bias..Oh yes, Alucard is considered by many to be the best anti-hero ever in video game history. Haven't you played Symphony of the Night before? Ah, I see. You listen to what people say when they say what you want. Nice.Responses in Yellow. |
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Post by falcon8r on May 19, 2011 9:04:30 GMT -5
This is getting stupid, DMX, with all honesty. Just because Raiden starred in his own games does not mean we should automatically give him a spot. And no, I am not playing favoritism. Alucard has appeared on Nintendo consoles since the NES in Castlevania III and is still a popular character today. And Smash Bros, again, needs to be leaned over toward Nintendo. Raiden hasn't made much of an impact on Nintendo. Not on Nintendo consoles - this is actually a good point. However, you're missing the main idea - we need another MGS rep. Metal Gear was the first 3rd party franchise to appear in Smash Bros., and no one can deny that it's one of the biggest game series out there. Comparing Raiden to Alucard is not relevant. Besides, Alucard is not on the roster. At least keep the number of MGS and Castlevania reps balanced, will ya? Aggron weighing 800lbs didn't stop him from going into battle in Pokemon, now did it? That's an ridiculous reason to drop him. Oh, and who said Red used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time? That's pretty much impossible unless you trade a bunch of times. Most people that play Pokemon own a Gengar, Scizor, or Aggron (usually all 3). Yellow Version. You could easily obtain all three original starters. Look it up. And you forget that YOU are not "most people". There are indeed a lot of trainers who don't even know what an Aggron is. My roommate, for instance, who just purchased Black version, said, "Oh, isn't it that thing that evolves from Rhydon?" ;D And I'm glad you've learned to accept the ridicule of Agumon. However, I can't say a good idea is poor. Oh yes, Alucard is considered by many to be the best anti-hero ever in video game history. Haven't you played Symphony of the Night before? Best Anti-Hero ever? You have one of those pocket video game critics encyclopedias?? They are SO FREAKING AWESOME! And so biased! Oh, the irony! Seriously, we DO need another MGS rep. Gray Fox was planned to be on the roster for like, ever, and then we cut him without really even talking about it. |
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Post by DGN on May 19, 2011 10:07:59 GMT -5
ensane: Simon Belmont is already in the game. @det: I feel the same way. I never owned a Gengar or Scizor or used them for battle in the mainstream games, mainly because of trading. I owned an Aggron once, but that was with my old sapphire game I played when I was, what, four? I don't like him at all anymore. @golden: Yes, but in the past, Rareware was a great partner of Nintendo, and with games they had like Conker's Bad Fur Day, Goldeneye 007, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, etc. they greatly increased Nintendo's popularity.
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Post by PartisanDaw on May 19, 2011 12:49:23 GMT -5
Ugh.
For the 2nd MGS character:
-They need ASAP to talk about Gray Fox or Raiden. This going to be a Open War.
Castelvania:
-Alucard? Heck No. I suggested him on the old Forums,and nobody like him. So No!
Simon would be vetter.
Trainer:
-TBH,Rival Trainer still seems for me a good chooise. But there are better Trainers like May.
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Post by -Dr.MarioX- on May 19, 2011 14:05:09 GMT -5
Golden, I like MGS a lot. Even though I can lean toward Castlevania a little more, I don't think another Konami rep. is entirely necessary. You have to realize there are other reps. outside of Sega, Capcom, and Konami. SUCH AS:
Rare (Big Impact on the N64)
Namco
Square (Uh, Final Fantasy?)
Midway
Interplay
Shiny Entertainment
Traveler's Tales
And many others.
WOAH, WAIT
You were 4 years old when Ruby and Sapphire came out? That was 2003...
So much explained...
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