Official v2 Tier List Crusade 0.6

[Felipe_9595]

No, there is not a backroom, this list started as a random list created by zelda, one of the newbies of the forums. it never had an official character,but it was the only one out there so he putted Official on the name of the topic.

[The 85.]

Newbie? He at least has better grammar than you.

[Felipe_9595]

LOL newbie is an insult? No. noob is an insult (i like him, he is a nice person) . i have a bad grammar because hurpdurp english is my third language maybe?

So, you dont have arguments to defend your posture about link being higher, and after that you proceed to insult me. yeah, thats a wonderful defense.

[Dettadeus]

EDIT: Goddanged ninjas.

Jigglypuff is halfway between her strength in Melee and her strength in Brawl, IMO. She's currently 3rd on the Melee tier list and last (or very darn close to it) on the Brawl list. For Crusade, Rest and Sing were MAJORLY buffed (from Brawl), but her range still sucks in comparison to what it should be. She's at least C-tier if not better.

And using CPUs to figure out a matchup is just as bad. It accounts for LITERALLY nothing, because the AI doesn't know the meaning of the words "Metagame" and "Advanced Technique".

Anyways, discussion of SS (which should be S if there isn't an S tier) and A tier.
I suppose I can settle for Goku being 1st, Fox being 2nd, Krystal being 3rd, and Meta being 4th, but the issue I'm having with your top-tier placements is you're ignoring a lot of things. Fox being Goku's only truly negative matchup doesn't automatically put him higher. Yes, he has great combo potential, but the CPU can shield just about every one of his smashes before they come out. His U-Air is also still predictable and hard to combo into at high percentages (when it can kill). And we have to keep in mind that a human isn't as stupid as a computer and will figure out a way around Fox's D-air. A lot of characters can just blast through him before he starts it up (Krystal's U-Special would be a notable counter to Fox's D-Air right off the ground).
Specifically on the topic of Goku vs Fox, yes, Fox will win in that match. That doesn't mean he's higher on the tier list. Goku, IIRC, is just as fast as Fox, they have similar weight and fast fall speeds, but Goku can kill more easily on all characters. Does Fox have an attack that can rip across the stage and has high knockback? No. Does he have a spammable projectile with knockback? No. Does he have a spike? A semi-spike (D-air) that can still be recovered from (Sonic would be a notable example due to his great vertical recovery). Goku murders most of the cast while Fox doesn't.
tl;dr: Yes, Fox is good, but he's not broken like Goku.
And if you put Fox above Goku because Fox beats Goku, then Krystal would be higher than Meta Knight because Krystal can beat both of them, Meta Knight especially. Meta Knight can't do much to get around Krystal's S-Special, and there's nothing he can do but shield or dodge against D-Special. Krystal also COMPLETELY outranges him with her jab attack alone, not to mention her F-tilt, Dash Attack, U-Tilt, etc. And with her U-Special's invincibility frames and high priority she can break through his D-Air like it was nothing.
Lucario, IMO, shouldn't be that high. His recovery in particular is very easily gimped because it's predictable; he only has one option (save for gliding with his D-air, but that won't help him get higher up), and it has a very set path. Yes, he becomes increasingly broken as he gets to higher percentages, but he also gets easier to kill. A lot of his attacks are also LAGGY, and his U-Smash sucks. In other words, he's high-risk and high-reward, but not high-tier.

And give some explanation as to why you yanked Ryu out of A-tier and Ristar out of B.

[Chaotic Chao]

I strongly disagree with that tier list. Especially Link's place. You can't be serious putting Link that low.

And Ness may be my main, but I actually think he should be lower than that. His recovery is insanely difficult to pull off and his moves are harder to hit than usual. Also his second jump seems to be lower than in the actual SSB games.

And you've got nerve putting Knux that low. =p And Bomberman should probably be a bit higher.

Don't even get me started on Jigglypuff.

[Dettadeus]

Ice Link, pretty much everyone puts Knuckles that low. >_>

And btw:
Get started on Jigglypuff.

EDIT: Why the crap did my karma go down by two just today?

[Chaotic Chao]

That's because nobody understand how strong Knuckles really is.

Edit: Oh, you meant me. =p
Well, first of all, Jigglypuff's moves have noticebly high knockback (I've really only have played as her 3 times, but still). Her rollout is always really strong. Also, Jigglypuff's sing is great. Not only does it have really good range, but the sleeper will sleep for a while and rest not only is extremely effective, but it will restore your health by 8%. I once used rest to heal ALL of my damage. I also noticed that Jigglypuff seems good at dodging. She has really good mobility, being a lightweight character and all. ...I just remembered why I main her in melee, but not brawl. =p

I have other things to say, but I can't be sure until I play as Jigglypuff again...

[Dettadeus]

Ever heard of sarcasm? I use it quite often.

And once again:
Get started on Jigglypuff.

[Chaotic Chao]

Jul 26, 2011 13:10:50 GMT -5 Dettadeus said:

Ever heard of sarcasm? I use it quite often.

But I'm pretty sure you're right. Knux is always low for no reason.

[Dettadeus]

...I was talking about why my karma went down. The Knuckles thing was entirely serious.

And before you post again I will reiterate:
JIGGLYPUFF.

[Chaotic Chao]

I already started talking about Jigglypuff. See reply #46?

[Dettadeus]

Oh. Darn you and your edit. *reads*

Rest only heals 6%. Not 9%.
EDIT: No, it's actually 8%. Nevermind.
And Falcon has mentioned that Jiggs has some of the best smashes in the entire game. *goes to find quote*
Quotes:

Side Smash is Jigglypuff's strongest horizontal launcher, and it's among the strongest Side Smashes in the game. The slide during this move travels even farther than the slide on Kirby's Side Smash and begins before the hitbox comes out. That said, this move has a lot of range, which may surprise some opponents.

Pound may look like a simple move, but it has a place in advanced Jigglypuff play. For one thing, it does a LOT of shield damage and shield stun, making it a scary move for your opponents to block. Another thing is that it is a viable KO move if used after Sing or after Shield Breaking your opponent (potentially with Pound itself!). Also, it has some invincibility just before the hitbox, giving it the ability to blow through most other attacks, which is especially useful in recovery. Finally, you can use Pound to extend Jigglypuff's recovery even more. In versions of the game after 0.6, you can perform a "Rising Pound" by holding Up after the move begins. This technique can greatly enhance Jigglypuff's recovery.

Rest is one of the most worshipped moves in Smash, and it can be pretty obvious why. It has a tiny hitbox, but it hits instantaneously and is very powerful. This move is even more useful in Crusade since Jigglypuff restores a small amount of health (8%) while asleep. It's best used as a punish or after Sing. Just don't use while off-stage unless you want to fall to your doom.

Jigglypuff simply inflates to enormous size quickly, hitting foes when inflating and blowing them away when deflating. This is a fanstastic Final Smash. It starts up almost instantly and covers a huge area. Although it is weaker than most Final Smashes in terms of knockback, the fact that it's hard to miss with it more than makes up for the lack of power. Not only can you use this move to simply blast enemies horizontally offscreen, but also, you can use it to edgeguard. If the enemy manages to grab the edge, there's a high chance they will still get hit by the gust of wind (and hitbox) that occur when Jigglypuff deflates.

It should also be noted that you can combo into this using Up Tilt or Up Throw (when the opponent has medium-high damage). That means you can guarantee a hit with it, making it even more useful.

Yup.

[Chaotic Chao]

I'll put more when I have time to play Crusade again and elaborate on her intricate gameplay style.

[Felipe_9595]

i separated goku and fox from the rest because they are too good compared to the rest of the roster xD.

yeah, jigglypuff as mid tier is not a bad idea. ( i will write about them at the end)

About meta and kirstal as 3 and 4 ..... huuuum is really hard, they both are too good.

lucario have great chaingrabs, he can evel grab> N special. But apart from that i think you are right some of his attacks are pretty laggy.

About ryu .... he lacks of good kill moves (up smash is the only decent one, all the others are super laggy), his special have low priority and can be easily be avoided. his aerial game sucks (lacks of priority) and his combo potential is low.

IMO, (imo, deeply inside me) he is in some aspects good, in others he sucks. he have a lot of range but he lacks from a kill move. I cant even think on a attack to sue as a finisher xPPPP

Okay, now fox vs Goku.

Lets not talk about Crusade shields, they are broken and can only be used at his full potential by cpus, the powershield frame-window is INSANE. they are like brawl shields (but at elast in brawl you can buffer a powershield, you cant do that on crusade)

the cpu can shield his smashes, but only PS it. And shine is a true combo to any smash attack if your timing is the correct. thats why fox is high tier. he is the only character of crusade that haves TRUE combos. Shine to dair is a true combo, shine to shine to shine to .... is a true combo ( See my combo video, on Ganplank vs ryu, the fist 6 shines were totally chained between them). His upsmash is one of the most pwoerful smashs of the game, he can kill goku on 80% . thats why fox is so good, because the majority of hiscombos cannot be avoided. Another thing about fox, he doesnt receive punishment at all. What happens if fox miss a dair for example??? my opponent need to grab, if not, he is going to receive a shine in exchange. What happens if my opponent miss a shield when i dair him??? he is going to eat at least a 25% combo, at least (he can even lose the stock for commiting such a simple mistake) there is not other character in crusade that can do this. Fox aerials are just too good, dair doesnt have starting lag and is a Drill that can spike. it can kill on 0%. Thats why fox is top tier:

- he receives a little punishment or even nothing if he commites mistake
- All his moves lead to combo.
- Dair si a drill that can spike, it can kill on 0%
- Shine have fixed knockback and can combo on another shine (Is the only attack of the game that can combo with every other attack of the character). it can gimp on 0% aswell.
- he have a good recovery with very high priority


EDIT:

So, to do:

- make Jigglypuf middle tier

[Chaotic Chao]

Jul 26, 2011 13:21:44 GMT -5 Felipe_9595 said:

IMO, (imo, deeply inside me) he is in some aspects good, in others he sucks. he have a lot of range but he lacks from a kill move. I cant even think on a attack to sue as a finisher xPPPP

You are not talking about Ryu and his overwhelming knockback and the high damage he gives (I could be confusing him with evil Ryu again. But seriously, are you talking about Ryu???).

His moves do fail to kill sometimes, but just barely. I think his main set back is how hard it is to hit someone with him.

[Felipe_9595]

hey ice, no, that phrase was about Ristar, ryu one is:

About ryu .... he lacks of good kill moves (up smash is the only decent one, all the others are super laggy), his special have low priority and can be easily be avoided. his aerial game sucks (lacks of priority) and his combo potential is low.

[Chaotic Chao]

Oh. Well, I think you were right about Ristar. =p
Ryu does have pretty good kill moves. My problem was hitting people with them, because he always seems to miss.

[Felipe_9595]

oh, i just noticed i forgot to put lucas in, he is in the text version but not on the icon version

He is above Snake

EDIT: YEAH Thats why ryu is not that goood, his mvoes lacks of range

[Dettadeus]

Check my edits, Felipe and Ice Link.
And if a computer can do it then a human can too. You just need great foresight and insane reaction time.
Nothing can kill at 0%. You deal damage by using the attack, and you have to get them off the stage SOMEHOW. >_>

And you entirely missed Ristar.

EDIT: Nevermind the Ristar thing.

He has insane range (f-smash FTW) and a great aerial game, not to mention good specials. He can outrange most of the higher-tiered close-combat characters such as Meta Knight.

[Felipe_9595]

no i talked about ristar:

IMO, (imo, deeply inside me) he is in some aspects good, in others he sucks. he have a lot of range but he lacks from a kill move. I cant even think on a attack to sue as a finisher xPPPP

lol stop taking everything i say so literal xDDDDDDD Nothing can kill at 0% (because it will add damage obv xP)

How to take them out of the stage??? Shine> Shine> Shine >Dair bye character. Is a inescapable combo. is an easy 0 to death combo. You do dtrow to dair, nair to dair, etc etc etc

EDIT: But ristar lacks of finishing moves. he can air camp, true, but he cant finish his opponent.

We are ok with the bottom of the tier list now no??? (everyone is ok with the rise of jigglypuff)

oh, in same of "Oficcial" tier lsit we can change the name too "Community Tier List" (Because all the users are going to contribute with this)

PD: Fox is the new meta xD