Official v2 Tier List Crusade 0.6

[DGN]

I LOVE how you just ignored everything I said about Ristar.
And you said something that Waluigi has an infinite? WELL GUESS WHAT? THAT'S GETTING REMOVED NEXT DEMO! YAAAAAY, HE ISN'T BROKEN ANYMOAR. Glitches shouldn't even count when making a rankings list.
Now let's see:
Ristar's probably better against Jiggs due to range. And wario for the same reason, but THE INFINITE RECOVERY GLITCH DOES NOT COUNT WHEN MAKING A RANKINGS LIST.
Basically, his range, ease in the air, and domination and mainly staying the air brings him higher. He does have problems with Tails and Luigi, but he should be AT LEAST HIGH C TIER.
I don't even know how Lucario is that high...

[Dettadeus]

We ignore SOME glitches (crusade cancel) but not all of them. Keep in mind that this is 0.6, Generic. Waluigi still has his infinite, Jiggs can't Rising Pound, etc.
You still don't seem to know how tier lists work.

WARNING: GIANT CHANGE IN OPINION HERE.
Idea have. How about we not make a tier list for 0.6? With all the glitches that can be exploited and the character unbalances that need fixing, there's not really a point to it. That was even my original opinion. When 0.7 comes out, hopefully it'll be glitch-free and we'll be able to make a slightly more accurate tier list.
All in favor say "Aye, 10char". Or if you have something else to post then ignore the "10char".

[Felipe_9595]

I didnt consider infinities. Lucario is going down, i dont know why i putted him so high xP
Ristar doesnt have a finishing mvoe man, he can have range but he doesnt have strenght

EDIT: 0.7 is coming on 1 month more, in the meanwhile we can work on this, when 0.7 comes we jsut start with it

[Chaotic Chao]

I'd say aye if I knew when 0.7 is coming out.
Edit: Ok, then aye.

[DGN]

Jul 26, 2011 14:47:50 GMT -5 Dettadeus said:

You still don't seem to know how tier lists work.

I at least know that THIS is not a tier list, as there are no SSBC tourneys.
But aye.

@felipe: I love how you completely ignored the list I made stating all of the KO moves.
And don't believe me? GO INTO THE GAME AND TRY THEM.

[Felipe_9595]

Man..... they kill around 200% (except for the smash, they are so laaagy you cant hit with them XP)

In change, fox upsmash kills on 80, bair in 120, fsmash in 80.

lol tier list =/= tourneys

[DGN]

They kill around 90%. PLAY THE GAME, AS I SAY.
LAGGY? LEMME GUESS, YOU'RE PLAYING AS SONIC. HE'S THE FASTEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME, PLAY AGAINST SOMEONE LIKE MARIO OR BOMBERMAN.
If you're going to keep being ignorant and DON'T PLAY THE GAME AND TEST IT, I'm done.
You're too unreasonable.

[Felipe_9595]

hahahaha haters gonna hate

I dont know if you are trolling o you are being serious xD

EDIT: ristar is slow, one of the slowest character of crusade.

Testing attacks of ristar to show you how weak he is.

At the center of final destination. uair kills at 220% to a fox (proper fast fall and airdoge was applied)

Dair at 170%

Nair at 180%

Bair at 145%

They are weaks, pretty weaks. Ristar only haves range, he lacks of power

[ensane]

Wow, so many things to reply to. Nt sure if my opinion is too valuable though. XD I'll try to make this coherent.

Ristar: Unfortunately, Ristar really can't kill very well at all. His smashes are fairly weak, and very slow and punishable. His aerials are quick but too short in range to edgeguard anyone who can afford to attack while recovering. Mid C-tier maybe? He doesn't seem to have many advantages, imo.

Link: The loss of boomerang was a big one. Items don't function well enough to pressure with only his bombs. Imo, his slow attacks shouldn't account for much. He should be played with short-hopped aerials, a la Marth, with plenty of zair mixed in. Zair is long, disjointed, quick, and disrupting. I'd say around D-tier for him.

MK: I think he's fine as is. Lost some range and prio, but he's still left with enough to be top tier. About MK and Krystal vs Goku, Krystal does better because she doesn't have to approach.

Luigi: He suffers the same weird weakness as in all the smash games. High priority moves, but low range. In other words, he rapes characters noticably slower or with worse range (Jiggs, Snake), but does horribly against those with better range/projectiles (MK, Krystal). I'd say high C.

Fox: He's good, he's fast, he's comboable. XD Felipe, you need to retest that shine > shine combo because CPUs at almost all levels tend to DI towards you, even when they shouldn't. Dair is very good, but lacks enough range to be very effective on anyone with any range. Combo from shine doesn't have the best range either. As for his recovery, it's practically unstoppable, but it doesn't sweetwpot the ledge, which makes it very punishable. MK isn't the only one who can gimp him. Anyone with a projectile w/ knockback can. Definitely A-tier, imo.

@everyone: dairs only auto-fastfall if you hold down. If you tap down, it will never auto-fastfall. I play as Yoshi all the time and never have a problem with this.

Please let me know if I missed anything; that was from 2 pages of stuff.

[DGN]

Jul 26, 2011 15:16:43 GMT -5 Felipe_9595 said:

ristar is slow, one of the slowest character of crusade.

So you ignored me saying that side special boosts him forward? How typical.

Testing attacks of ristar to show you how weak he is.

At the center of final destination. uair kills at 220% to a fox (proper fast fall and airdoge was applied)

Dair at 170%

Nair at 180%

Bair at 145%

They are weaks, pretty weaks. Ristar only haves range, he lacks of power

I"m curious here, what are yout doing to find these scores? And by that I mean things like "You as Ristar vs a CPU Fox", "You as fox vs a CPU Ristar", or "CPU Fox vs CPU Ristar", or another thing?

[Dettadeus]

He's testing it on an uncontrolled Fox as Ristar. Meaning Player 2 without a player.

[DGN]

Hrm.
Are you sure you have the correct Handicap on, then?
Because I usually never make it to 220% with normal modes....
If you're doing your hacked SMI, then just do Final Destination. That's where it's easiest for him to KO anyways...

[ensane]

Wow, I get less replies than Felipe. That makes me sad. XD

Also, Ristar's side special boosts, but it has too much start and end lag.

[DGN]

Which is why you should keep him in the air with jumping-Somewhat like Falco. More vertical movement than horizontal.
Also:

The first time I KO'd her was with the Fsmash at 75%, then making her go into 91%.
The second time was 46%-62%. Again with Fsmash.
The third time was 78%-94% with *gasp* Fsmash.
I'm certain I Ko'd them with different moves in my vids as well.
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL548745E8414EDA54&feature=mh_lolz
whaddya think nao, felipe?

[Felipe_9595]

Jul 26, 2011 16:28:00 GMT -5 ensane said:

Wow, so many things to reply to. Nt sure if my opinion is too valuable though. XD I'll try to make this coherent.

Ristar: Unfortunately, Ristar really can't kill very well at all. His smashes are fairly weak, and very slow and punishable. His aerials are quick but too short in range to edgeguard anyone who can afford to attack while recovering. Mid C-tier maybe? He doesn't seem to have many advantages, imo.

Link: The loss of boomerang was a big one. Items don't function well enough to pressure with only his bombs. Imo, his slow attacks shouldn't account for much. He should be played with short-hopped aerials, a la Marth, with plenty of zair mixed in. Zair is long, disjointed, quick, and disrupting. I'd say around D-tier for him.

MK: I think he's fine as is. Lost some range and prio, but he's still left with enough to be top tier. About MK and Krystal vs Goku, Krystal does better because she doesn't have to approach.

Luigi: He suffers the same weird weakness as in all the smash games. High priority moves, but low range. In other words, he rapes characters noticably slower or with worse range (Jiggs, Snake), but does horribly against those with better range/projectiles (MK, Krystal). I'd say high C.

Fox: He's good, he's fast, he's comboable. XD Felipe, you need to retest that shine > shine combo because CPUs at almost all levels tend to DI towards you, even when they shouldn't. Dair is very good, but lacks enough range to be very effective on anyone with any range. Combo from shine doesn't have the best range either. As for his recovery, it's practically unstoppable, but it doesn't sweetwpot the ledge, which makes it very punishable. MK isn't the only one who can gimp him. Anyone with a projectile w/ knockback can. Definitely A-tier, imo.

@everyone: dairs only auto-fastfall if you hold down. If you tap down, it will never auto-fastfall. I play as Yoshi all the time and never have a problem with this.

Please let me know if I missed anything; that was from 2 pages of stuff.

Sorry ensane, today i felt sleep at 4 pm xD

Okay, about the shine> everything. Is a true combo. How do i know? I used cheat engine to lower the frame rate of the game. Is unavoidable. Fox have a good range, nair comes to find, or even fair (first 2 hits of fair> shine>everything) . He can do SH double lasers to rack up damage. ANd his upb is unstoballe, and yes, you can "sweetspot" the ledge, side b can do this, but you can use your up b parallel to the ledge and aim to it, you will not receive knockback if you are hit.

I was testing kristal, and i found some things. His upb lacks of priority, it can be easily gimped. His dowb b is a good infinite, but your timing have to be perfect. You can air dodge out of stun.

And no ensane, i just tested it, the ´projectiles cannot stop for recovery. it eats the hitstun xPPPP

Luigi, believe it or not, have pretty nasty stucks, he have a good range, his nairs rapes everything on the game. and when i mean everything, is everything xDDDD weak nair> nair is a perfect finishing move. His uair can combo on nair as well. He have a good grab game and his recovery is pretty good.

Later i will upload a video of the "Residual C4" of snake

EDIT: Generic. when we are talking of KO% we are talking about the necesary damage to create a star ko/ side stage ko. Not a Gimp ko. Fox fsmash can kill in 80-90%, but i apply your logic he can kill on 40 and then do another to kill at 55%

[PartisanDaw]

@felipe

As for Link,That low placement is poor,not acceptable,**** .He's a good character and he's getting some buffs said Falcon88.

And:

Jul 12, 2011 12:46:14 GMT -5 @Crusade Wiki said:

Link finally makes a tier comeback in the Smash series. Link is ranked 13th (High B Tier) due to his great kill power, significantly improved recovery, air game and amazing Side B (equiped with very powerful kill moves). The Crusade physics suit Link very well. Larger ledge sweetspot helps Link's recovery and Zair significantly, ability to dashdance due to Crusade's low traction and slightly improved hitstun help him to combo. This resulted in great matchups against the majority of the cast.

Pros

Fast attack speed
Great range in many of his attacks
Great kill power
Has many strong multihitting moves, allowing easy Final Smash gauge fill ups
Great Camping game
Has a reflector
Heavyweight
Amazing ground game
Almost entire moveset can kill
Cons

Pretty slow movement speed
Poor recovery
Below average air game
Bombs require straight preciscion to use effectively
Rather weak Final Smash plus its small activating range

Want more?


HAHAHA! Link stays in B tier.

[Felipe_9595]

Guys... sigh

Link is bad. all of his attacks haves a starting an a end lag. (uair, dair, nair, bair and fair. all of his aerials have a huge landing lag) His smash attacks are laggy too (Fsmash, and smash, upsmash is the onlt decent one, but only if you connect the first hit, and even, youc an escape the first hit, so link becomes completely vulnerable)

he have the WORST recovery of the game. Please, how in the hell a character with the worst recovery on the game can be on b tier??? He doesnt have combos. His range is bad. His bomb are buggy and cannot be used well.

thats why he is so low.

EDIT: I find funny that wiki description. How can he camp if his bomb are not effective? His projectliles are mediocres. His reflector Suuucks. How he hvae an amazing ground game? All of his smash are laggy as hell. The only decent enought attack he have is Utilt.

[PartisanDaw]

No. No. No. Link isn't bad. And , by the way , you didn't read that Falcon is buffing him? Limk don't have "lag" on his Uair,Dair have only his landing lag,Bair have great KO potential. And wtf!! Smash attack lagy? No. Just no.

Link might have a poor recovery,but NOT in Crusade.I've get back on the stage EVERYTIME.
The Crusade physics suit Link very well.He have a tether , good for distance attacks,presure and mindgames.

I don't really like Link's Side B but It's one of the BEST Specials in the Game. You have 5 ways to kill somebody + a reflector that ,don't want to be rude but , don't sucks. How you could think that it sucks?Yes the Bombs are not the best item,they got nerfed / "Bombs require straight preciscion to use effectively" . But only bad bombs can't make a character bad.

In fact:
Link is awesome. End of Discussion.

[Felipe_9595]

You can get back to the stage, but because you are playing against cpus, derp. Any human can edgeguard link.

Man, you are ignoring the facts, COmpare, for example, Goku fsmash with link fsmash. Wich one is better??? Goku. WHy? he comes out on the first frame and it doesnt have a lag. LInk have lags on all of his attacks. His attacks are BAD in comparaison witht he attacks of the rest of the cast.

If you keep talking about how"good" is link, i will upload a video of his frame data and how many lags his attacks haves. His recovery is poor and he doesnt have combos.

[ensane]

Hmm, didn't know Fox's up special cancels projectiles, because it certainly doesn't on Toon Link. But then again, the prio on his are pretty high.

I meant retest the shine to shine while DIing away with P2 controls.

Can you post a vid of Fox's up special sweetspotting? I can't test anything atm, and all I've ever seen it do is hit the ledge and stall or go right past and go into helpless frames.