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Post by DGN on Oct 1, 2011 13:57:36 GMT -5
Det, Generic's vote shouldn't count. He hates competitive play, and he can't nor has the skill to play competitively even if his life depended on it. That vote was pretty biased and he admitted in XAT it was just to piss me off. Regardless if it did or not, it shouldn't count. Da Generic name used Taunt! Lugia went into a rage! But yeah, I'm just saying who I feel should be there. Who I'd want to be there. Count it out or not, I don't matter. |
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Oct 1, 2011 15:00:56 GMT -5
So when did this go from who's better in general to who's better against the other? G&W having a good, even, or bad matchup against Fox doesn't determine which of them is going to be higher than the other. ^This definitely. Rankings are based on overall matchups, not just against other high tiers. Also what's with all the flames lately, Generic? EDIT: You can put me down for G&W, Det. |
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Excalibur
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"Excalibuuurrrrr!" *dances*
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Post by Excalibur on Oct 1, 2011 15:07:12 GMT -5
So when did this go from who's better in general to who's better against the other? G&W having a good, even, or bad matchup against Fox doesn't determine which of them is going to be higher than the other. Meh, just analyzing the match-up to get Felipe to quit the bias. The first reasons I explained in my first post of this topic already displayed his potential in why he is generally the best for second place. Sorry for getting "slightly" off-topic. |
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Oct 1, 2011 15:11:51 GMT -5
@felipe: a 0-death combo doesn't mean auto second if it's hard to pull off. (i.e. Ice Climbers) Also, didn't Falcon change dair and shine for that reason?
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Post by Dettadeus on Oct 1, 2011 17:23:19 GMT -5
Alright, since Generic's just being annoying I've retracted his vote. I've added Ensane's as well.
Current score:
Fox: 3
G&W: 4
About 8 more hours to vote.
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Post by Felipe_9595 on Oct 1, 2011 23:41:02 GMT -5
Guys, you are not getting the point. Who is my main??? G&W. I dont play any other character on 0.7, apart from saki and a little bit of fox. But fox is overal better. I ahve to repeat this again:
- COMBOS (best combo potential of the game)
- Good recovery
- Infinites
- Great Shield Pressure
- Good Grab Game
Game and Watch is good, but not as good as Fox.
This si why we need a backroom, the half of the people here are voting only based on other people opinions.
And Excalibur god i am a melee profesional player. I know what Spacing, disjointed hitbox and all the terms of smash.
And your argument is bad. SO, in your opinion, ZSS should be top tier in brawl??? Because she haves the more disjointed hitbox of the game, didnt you know??? Disjointed hitboxes helps, but is not everything. Marth is not better than fox or falco in melee, althought he haves a lot of disjointed hitboxes.
Fox is better, and if G&W wins, then that means 4 people havent played 0.7 at all.
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Post by PartisanDaw on Oct 2, 2011 1:19:54 GMT -5
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Post by Dettadeus on Oct 2, 2011 12:15:08 GMT -5
Well, looks like G&W is second.
Now for number 3. And again...
ONLY NUMBER 3.
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Post by DGN on Oct 2, 2011 12:24:48 GMT -5
If G&W is second, then Fox should clearly be third, due to the heavy debating between Fox and G&W for second.
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Post by Dettadeus on Oct 2, 2011 12:26:16 GMT -5
I'll leave that up for discussion.
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Post by PartisanDaw on Oct 2, 2011 12:46:53 GMT -5
If G&W is second, then Fox should clearly be third, due to the heavy debating between Fox and G&W for second. What,He said. |
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Oct 2, 2011 14:00:53 GMT -5
I'm voting Fox.
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dry
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sup
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Post by dry on Oct 6, 2011 12:48:43 GMT -5
DGN, the fox vs gw debate only carried on because the discussion had pretty much turned into that. no one brought up any other characters. so it's not a valid reason for making fox third. Personally I think fox should be fourth, and metaknight third. Metaknight has the best recovery in the game, insane shield pressure and a viable chaingrab (down throw). He also has good combos, breakneck speed finishers (faster than fox's for sure) that kill around 110% (acceptable), and a very good approach that partly makes up for his lack of a projectile. Short range, yes, but his own body size is very small, and the vast majority of his moves have huge disjoints. His other weakness is his weight, but that didn't stop gw getting to 2nd. So, consider MK, tell me what you think  |
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ensane
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Post by ensane on Oct 7, 2011 11:22:57 GMT -5
Fox. He kills earlier, combos about the same, and his recovery is invincible. Maybe without the invincibility I'd think he's 4th.
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Excalibur
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"Excalibuuurrrrr!" *dances*
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Post by Excalibur on Oct 7, 2011 14:59:38 GMT -5
Fox. He kills earlier, combos about the same, and his recovery is invincible. Maybe without the invincibility I'd think he's 4th. His recovery is not invincible, you just need a higher priority attack. |
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dry
Forum Regular
sup
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Post by dry on Oct 7, 2011 16:20:58 GMT -5
Invincible or not, metaknights recovery is better. All of his recovery moves either have insane priority, insane distance, insane movement speed or a combination of these. Add this to 4 relatively high midair jumps and the ability to glide, and I'm sorry, but fox's recovery can't compare.
Also, fox has a powerful finisher, but metaknights is faster and he actually has multiple finishing options. Whereas fox has to rely on up smash to kill early, metaknight can finish with his down smash or shuttle loop, as well as his down air near the edge (best gimper in the game). As fox, your opponent will be expecting an up smash at any moment when they reach high damage. Its so much harder to land, let alone sweetspot, because it's so predictable. Keep in mind that one of falcos few flaws in brawl that keep him at 4th is the lack of multiple finishers. As metaknight, your opponent could take a down smash or shuttle loop at any time, and a combination of them being fast and there being more than one of them means that metaknights finishing ability is more efficient than fox's.
Edit: yes, fox's recovery does have invincibility frames, but there aren't nearly enough to make fox difficult to gimp, and the recovery path is mad predictable anyway. On the other hand, metaknight's shuttle loop and dimensional cape move so fast and far that they are almost impossible to hit.
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Post by Dettadeus on Oct 7, 2011 23:00:36 GMT -5
Dry, there are so many things wrong with your post. >_>
The most glaringly wrong thing is that Meta Knight's D-air is the best gimper in the game. It's ironic how you're talking about MK vs Fox, because Fox literally has the best gimp move in the game: his D-Air.
Fox's U-Special is higher priority than most attacks and travels further vertically than Shuttle Loop. One of the few things that can knock Fox out of his U-Special is a Turnip, courtesy of Peach. Whereas just about anything with knockback can hit Meta Knight out of his U-Special, as well as his Drill Rush and Mach Tornado.
And again, it's ironic that you're saying this:
because Fox Illusion is faster and more impossible to hit than either of those.
LolMKbias.
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dry
Forum Regular
sup
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Post by dry on Oct 8, 2011 17:00:06 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me a little, metaknights down air is certainly not the best gimper in the game, but metaknight himself, with his multiple jumps, down air and a deadly stage spike, is. Even if fox has a better edgeguarding move, his fast falling speed and the limited number of jumps means that metaknight is much more efficient at edgeguarding.
About the recovery thing, I was only comparing the moves to fire fox, but sure let's talk about fox illusion as well. It is certainly hard to hit out of, but keep in mind that it will only move in one direcion, and only ever move in one direction. This means that like fire fox, it's path is predictable and you know exactly where fox ends up as he reaches th stage. Metaknights recovery can take him anywhere, partly because he has multiple jumps, and partly because he has four different recovery moves.
The way you said it in your post, det, makes it sound like Im missing something thats glaringly obvious. So can you explain to me what it is? Let's put it this way. Metaknights recovery in brawl was uncontested, even with pikachu around. Thats something no one can deny. So what changed? Mach Tornado lost priority, gliding lost it's vertical capability and fox now has higher priority, but that's all I can see. These things don't constitute to making fox's recovery better than metaknights.
Ps: yes, I'm biased towards metaknight, so obviously it's only right to take my words with a pinch of salt. That doesn't mean you should completely shun them, though. Not saying you have, just that it's very easy to do so when you're talking to someone who clearly likes MK a lot. Its like debating about krystal with you.
Pps: where's the crusade back room application? I can't find it anywhere...
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Post by Zeldasmash on Oct 8, 2011 18:41:57 GMT -5
Fox has an easier time killing opponents than Meta Knight and harder to kill than Meta Knight.
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Post by Dettadeus on Oct 8, 2011 22:07:27 GMT -5
dry: Fox is still the best gimper in the game because his D-Air gimps so amazingly. It doesn't matter that MK has five jumps and Shuttle Loop to get back, it's nearly impossible to recover from Fox's D-Air off the stage because it sends you down like a meteor smash after dragging you down a good distance below the ledge. It also has very little startup and ending lag. And he doesn't have to fast fall to pull it off, so his fast falling speed is irrelevant. What you're missing is that Fox has a number of lead-ins to his signature finisher, U-Smash, such as a D-Air. He can also finish very efficiently with U-Air and even U-Special. Meta Knight, however, doesn't have any attacks with similar kill potential as Fox's U-Smash and F-Smash. He relies on gimping, and a number of characters have ways around that. Werekill hasn't made the applications for the BR and probably never will since the entire community's moved to the new forum. The BR on my forum is invite-only though.
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