Look out Samus-there's a new space hottie in town!

[gigapichu]

For some reason, I just love to beat the Tar outta Krystal. ONLY Krystal. No other character.

I thank the Devs for making one of my most hated characters such a fulfilling challenge to defeat.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Aug 9, 2011 20:10:51 GMT -5 gigapichu said:

For some reason, I just love to beat the Tar outta Krystal. ONLY Krystal. No other character.

I thank the Devs for making one of my most hated characters such a fulfilling challenge to defeat.

And once Geno is in, I can do the same.

[gigapichu]

Aug 9, 2011 20:19:46 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

Aug 9, 2011 20:10:51 GMT -5 gigapichu said:

For some reason, I just love to beat the Tar outta Krystal. ONLY Krystal. No other character.

I thank the Devs for making one of my most hated characters such a fulfilling challenge to defeat.

And once Geno is in, I can do the same.

Then you'd better hope they make him a challenge, or beating on him won't seem nearly as satisfying.

Or, maybe it will. I don't know how deeply you hate Geno.

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The best thing that could happen would be if I could pilvedrive him as Haggar.

But for now, I'm stomping on Krystal with Waluigi.

[gigapichu]

Aug 9, 2011 20:27:24 GMT -5 GoldenYuiitusin said:

The best thing that could happen would be if I could pilvedrive him as Haggar.

But for now, I'm stomping on Krystal with Waluigi.

Wow. That's exactly what I was doing.

(continues stomping Krystal with Waluigi)

Anywho, back on topic, Krystals Up Smash is Hate incarnate. Why does it have to be so SPAMMABLE.

[Dettadeus]

It also has very little KILL POTENTIAL.
I almost never use it. Ever. It's really only good to bait airdodges because it lasts so long.

[gigapichu]

Aug 9, 2011 23:18:33 GMT -5 Dettadeus said:

It also has very little KILL POTENTIAL.
I almost never use it. Ever. It's really only good to bait airdodges because it lasts so long.

Kill Potential or not, It's most definately one of the easiest moves to Spam. Plus, it racks up tons of damage, and it makes close-range fighting almost impossible. Especialy coupled with her 3 projectile Specials.

[ensane]

Outrange it, or projectile it.

[dry]

Well two of my mains outrange Krystal and the other one combos the crap out of her, so I don't know how to beat Krystal with a worse matchup. But I think the idea is to get close to her and attack quickly? Her weakness is lag, right?

[Dettadeus]

Hardly. D-Tilt and her Jab Combo are extremely quick and can easily screw over people attempting to approach. Her jab alone can outrange Meta Knight entirely and make it pretty much impossible for him to win. That's just one example.

[Chaotic Chao]

...
Why is it that all of the star fox characters have to be unusually strong?
And I've still only ever fought Crystal twice. Am I lucky?

[dry]

Sure Krystal's jab outranges on the ground, but it leaves her vulnerable from above. One of my friends is a Krystal main, and always spaces with her jab when I approach. That's when I fast fall a neutral air and chaingrab her ass out. She still makes that mistake all the time

Anyway, what IS Krystal's weakness, then? On my personal tier list, she's barely in the A tier, because I find her easier to combo and gimp than others, but I think someone disagreed with that earlier in the thread.

Star Fox characters are unusually strong, because they have the perfect attributes: a quick projectile with transcendent priority, fast falling speed and a reflector that covers all around the body, does high hitstun and comes out on frame 1. If the Star Fox characters weren't all clones, maybe they wouldn't all be good characters...

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Falco is a semiclone as of Brawl, and Wolf is not much of a clone. Only Specials are somewhat cloned, and the Final Smash is cloned.

[Dettadeus]

Don't forget that the only thing Krystal has in relation to the others is her neutral special (and sort of her u-special).

And in any case, does this friend of yours know that U-Special has invincibility frames and insane priority? It makes for a brilliant "GTFO" move for people approaching at an angle.

[dry]

Nope, she doesn't. Neither did I, thanks for that info. But surely its low range kinda destroys its high priority? Anything with longer range automatically out-prioritizes it, right?

And anyway, what are Krystal's flaws as a character?

[ensane]

It's invincible from what I've seen. The problem is that if it whiffs, Krystal is in for a world of hurt.
Kill power is probably a weakness as most of her kill moves are laggy and medium strength. That's excluding gimp kills though. Characters that out camp her or can maneuver around her camp do better.

[Dettadeus]

from what I've seen.

Up B: Flash Vixen
Invincible: 10-17
Hits: 10-24
Damage: 14-11
Hitlag: 9-8
Animation end: 42

This is why I made that maining guide.

dry: If you can stop the Boomerang Staff and Demon Sniper, it becomes very hard for Krystal to pull off a kill because her best kill moves - B-air, D-Air, F-Smash, D-Smash - are fairly laggy, save for D-Smash, which has bad range anyways.

[falcon8r]

Glad to see some Krystal discussion!

Just to clear up the priority on Up B, it will literally beat anything that isn't invincible, except for some projectiles.

Been doing a little Krystal playing lately, and I definitely see what you mean about spamming Up Smash. I did nerf the KO power from 0.6 to 0.7, but it needs a nerf to recovery time, IMO, in order to make it more punishable. Just to let you guys know - I don't like nerfing characters too much, but I think with Krystal there's plenty of nerfing that could be done. I could also throw in some minor buffs to keep you Krystal mainers interested. ;D

[dry]

I think the long duration means that if you miss with the up smash, she's very punishable anyway. I've personally never had any problems with it. But go ahead, nerf it. I don't really care much about Krystal, she's a good character, but I don't find her good enough to main. I think some nerfs will do her reputation some good though. A couple of people here seem to love beating her ass out.

[falcon8r]

Aug 25, 2011 10:56:04 GMT -5 dry said:

I think the long duration means that if you miss with the up smash, she's very punishable anyway. I've personally never had any problems with it. But go ahead, nerf it. I don't really care much about Krystal, she's a good character, but I don't find her good enough to main. I think some nerfs will do her reputation some good though. A couple of people here seem to love beating her ass out.

She's fun to fight against, and I guess that's why people like beating her ass.

Honestly, Krystal is the most solid character in the game IMO. She has good close and far-range options, has a solid ground game, solid air game, and incredible zoning. She's really a jack of all trades.

So, I have changed a few random things - what do you think about these changes?

• Reduced damage on first Jab from 4% to 3%. This makes it less damaging and less useful to harass players with just the first jab.
  
• Demon Sniper damage reduced from 8% to 7%. Also, its base stun is higher, but the stun growth is lower.
  
• Staff Boomerang has 6 frames longer recovery animation after throwing. It used to be 40 frames total duration and now is 46.
  
• Down Smash had its knockback and damage reduced. Its damage was lowered from 14% to 13% for each hit.
  
• Up Smash has a longer animation. The attack now ends on frame 49 instead of the old 44. Its interruptable frame was also changed to 47 instead of 42. The last hit also deals 2 fewer frames of shield stun. Overall, this move is much more punishable.
  
• Nair has 1 more landing recovery frame than before. This does not apply to auto-cancelling.
  
• Blaster (B) shots now travel a bit faster. I also want to add in the capability to charge them up and release them for more powerful, larger projectiles.
  

I didn't nerf some of her best tools, like Bair, Dair, and Up B, so I think she'll still be quite capable. Thoughts?