My own personal character rankings list.

[Dettadeus]

Well, I guess I'll take the time to play against all the characters today and shift some of the placements around. I have all day today (although I was going to play a lot of Minecraft and Dissidia Duodecim).
Although knuckles' attacks are really strong, they're easy to dodge. His final smash can easily be dodged as well by just jumping directly above him right as he uses it.

So yeah, I'll be back in an hour or two having played against the Mid-1, Mid-2 and Low tiers and I'll shift them around as I see fit.

Match settings: 3 stock on Final Destination against a level 9 CPU. I play as Krystal.
CHANGES:
Mid-1:
Saki has been moved to High tier. He's actually a lot better now that I played him again. Fast smashes and tilts, good recovery, good specials. Match Result: Victory, C rank.
Link has not moved. If I had to move him, it would only be slightly lower in the Mid-1 tier. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Pikachu has not been moved. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Waluigi might move down, but I'm not sure, After he got to around 80 percent, I could d-smash him from one end of the stage off the other, and repeat the process until I got bored or he died. Match result: Victory, S rank.
Captain Falcon has not moved. Match result: Victory, S rank.
Lucas might move down to a lower spot in Mid-1 or to top of Mid-2. He's insanely easy to edgeguard, and if hitting with a longer-ranged smash attack, it can safely hit through his PK Thunder and smack him further from the stage. Match result: Victory, S rank.

Mid-2:
Mario is moving up to Mid-1. His attacks are good overall, and his final smash, when the opponent is hit with it, is near inescapable. Match result: Victory, A rank.
Luigi has moved up to Mid-1 as well. Although he's still easy to edgeguard, his aerial game is great and he has a relatively deadly final smash. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Peach has not moved. She has some good attacks, a counter, and great recovery options, but not much in the name of reliable kill moves due to their short range. Her Final Smash is also pretty easy to dodge. Match result: Victory, S rank.
Sonic has not moved. His attacks are fast and relatively strong, but he's actually slightly easy to edgeguard and his aerial game isn't as good as it could be. Match Result: Victory, A rank.
Power Suit Samus has not moved. She's kind of easy to edgeguard, and her projectiles can be dodged easily. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Zero Suit Samus is High tier now. Great overall, hit-stun is very useful, she's fast and agile. Match result: Victory, B rank.
Megaman has moved to Low tier. All his projectiles are either short range or low priority, and he doesn't have a whole lot of attacking options other than those and his b-up, which isn't that good either. As said before, his Final Smash is easy to survive, although difficult to dodge entirely. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Wario can move up higher in Mid-2 tier. His attacks are pretty good, but when using his b-up, he's ridiculously vulnerable to attacks, and can be edgeguarded very easily. His Final Smash can also be dodged easily by air dodging at the right times and moving around a lot. Match result: Victory, A rank.

Low Tier:
Snake hasn't moved. He's just not as good as in brawl, the CPU isn't very good with grenades, and his u-smash doesn't work very well. Not to mention he didn't hit me with his final smash a single time, despite using it twice. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Knuckles hasn't moved. He could move to the top of low tier though. Like I've said before, his killing attacks are very slow; however, his recovery is very good. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Yoshi could probably be the bottom of Low tier, if not in a tier of his own. His only redeeming factor is really his final smash. I suppose that his glitchy-ness could be used to his advantage as it makes him rather unpredictable, but they're mostly just a nuisance. Match Result: Victory, S rank.
Kirby hasn't moved. He's still not very good, and that's not helped by how easy it is to kill him. However, his Final Smash is arguably one of the best in the game, due to it being near instantaneous, it stops all movement, and has huge knockback. Match result: Victory, S rank.
Ness has moved to Mid-2 tier, probably a higher up spot. His attacks are actually pretty good, now that I've fought him again. And who knew he was immune to non-physical projectiles while his PK Thunder was flying around? I didn't get to see his Final Smash though, so I can't comment on it. Match Result: Victory, S rank.

So now, the full and updated list (no particular order):
Top Tier:
Goku
Child/Toon/Young/?? Link.
Krystal
Bomberman
Ryu/Evil Ryu
Ristar
Tails

High Tier:
Fox
Toad
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Mach Rider
Meta Knight
Saki
Zero Suit Samus

Mid-1 Tier:
Link
Pikachu
Waluigi
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Mario
Luigi

Mid-2 Tier:
Peach
Sonic
Power Suit Samus
Wario
Ness

Low Tier:
Megaman
Snake
Knuckles
Yoshi
Kirby

(Possibly Bottom Tier:
Yoshi)


Any complaints about placement on this one?

[DGN]

Mar 25, 2011 12:49:04 GMT -5 falcon8r said:

Waft, .

Waft is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE.
It's been nerfed way too much.
1. It only attacks directly on Wario, when in Brawl, the stuff went more to the right and left for distance.
2. Its SO much slower, and I believe it makes him go up right away; its supposed to make him stop, then rise very fast.
3. There's no way to tell when its finished. A good thing here would be to have Wario say WAHAHAH
Also...powershield....
If the nerf'd things are deleted, he could easily go up to the next level.

[Dettadeus]

Just so people notice, I edited my previous post to include all changes, match results, and explanations, as well as the new tier list.

[DGN]

I honestly think Toon Link could move to low-high or high-mid 1, but that's it.
Where's the new demo?

[El Maiz]

Okay.

Wario sucks. He was one of the best, but not broken, characters in Brawl, and you took away three of his best tools.

Waft: As mentioned before. Frankly, in Crusade, Waft should not be counted as an attack.
Bite: It was great for damage and his range, and you took away both.
Dair: One of the best air attacks in Brawl, and you decided to make in punishable on powershield BEFORE HE HITS THE GROUND. Even with a forward smash.

[Zeldasmash]

Link and Knuckles are the only characters i criticzise but the rest is okay

[Dettadeus]

Could you elaborate?

[falcon8r]

I buffed a few minor things on Wario... Now that I played him a bit more, I think he needed the help.

I am also taking a look into making minor changes to some of the other "lower tier" characters.

[Dettadeus]

Whoah totally missed the edit there.

Anyways, I'm gonna try and put numbers on the tiers now, so chime in if you want someone moved with why you think they should be moved.

TOP TIER:
1. Goku
2. Krystal
3. Ryu/Evil Ryu
4. Bomberman
5. Ristar
6. Toon Link
7. Tails

HIGH TIER:
8. Fox
9. Toad
10. Jigglypuff
11. Saki
12. Meta Knight
13. Zero Suit Samus
14. Mach Rider
15. Lucario

MID-1 TIER:
16. Link
17. Luigi
18. Mario
19. Pikachu
20. Waluigi
21. Captain Falcon
22. Lucas

MID-2 TIER:
23. Peach
24. Ness
25. Wario
26. Power Suit Samus
27. Sonic

LOW TIER:
28. Knuckles
29. Megaman
30. Snake
31. Kirby
32. Yoshi.

[Zeldasmash]

Mar 28, 2011 12:30:50 GMT -5 Dettadeus said:

Whoah totally missed the edit there.

Anyways, I'm gonna try and put numbers on the tiers now, so chime in if you want someone moved with why you think they should be moved.

TOP TIER:
1. Goku
2. Krystal
3. Ryu/Evil Ryu
4. Bomberman
5. Ristar
6. Toon Link
7. Tails

HIGH TIER:
8. Fox
9. Toad
10. Jigglypuff
11. Saki
12. Meta Knight
13. Zero Suit Samus
14. Mach Rider
15. Lucario

MID-1 TIER:
16. Link
17. Luigi
18. Mario
19. Pikachu
20. Waluigi
21. Captain Falcon
22. Lucas

MID-2 TIER:
23. Peach
24. Ness
25. Wario
26. Power Suit Samus
27. Sonic

LOW TIER:
28. Knuckles
29. Megaman
30. Snake
31. Kirby
32. Yoshi.

Knuckles might be slow in attack speed, but he is excellent in mindgames and edgeguarding.

Samus has amazing edgeguard and camping ability and can survive easily.

The Cap is very fast and can produce excellent combos.

[Dettadeus]

So you're saying those three should move up. Who's to move down, and where would they be moving to?
I still don't think Knuckles will be moving up, for all the reasons I've stated.
As I said, Samus is very easy to edgeguard due to her vertical-only recovery that stops at its peak for nearly a moment, along with her projectiles being easy to dodge.
Captain Falcon could move up. I'll have to see about that.

[El Maiz]

I think that Bomberman may need to be second. Don't play with Krystal much, but I almost never can beat as lvl 9 bomber.

[Dettadeus]

Her Side special is higher priority than his projectiles, which is why she's higher up than him.
Also, I've gotten really good with air dodging (maining Jiggs will do that to you) and his FS isn't actually that difficult to dodge so long as you don't get hit early.

[El Maiz]

She may have a better matchup against him, but that doesn't mean that she's better than him.

[Dettadeus]

Her s-special is still high priority in general, not just against Bomberman.
And I just did a CPU match with a level 9 krystal against a level 9 bomberman on Final Destination. Krystal won.

[perfecthell4]

Feb 20, 2011 8:24:50 GMT -5 DGN said:

This is NOT a tier list. Those are people who usually win in tournaments with those characters.

Actually, tier lists have nothing to do with who wins in tournaments, rather tournament players tend to use top tier characters. Tier lists are based entirely off character metagames. In Moton An's tier list, there's a lot about CPU testing, an ineffective testing method. Just going back to my Back Room idea, a metagame needs to be developed per character for proper tier placements. CPU's are by no means competitive players. Testing for Tier placements can only be done in PvP, or just practicing your own application of metagame against CPU, other than that, it's something you figure out by thinking the character through in your head. As for the actual tier list's here, they look fairly well made, although I would suggest using lettered tiers (S Tier, A Tier, B Tier). Tiers should be separated by noticeable playability gaps, and evening out the spread of characters across tiers should not be valued. It's ok to have a one character tier, followed by a twelve character tier. Also, S tier should only be 1-3 characters at most, and if there aren't any one or two characters that stick out as such, then just start with A Tier. S Tier is basically the broken tier. Good effort, keep up work like this, and this community can yet have a strong back room.

[DGN]

Det called it a tier lits, but, like the title said, yea, its a ranking list.
But thanks for explaining that.

[Dettadeus]

The reason I didn't go with lettered tiers is that there would be a whole lot more argument about who fits into which tier, since I would've had a few more tiers, as well as having to split and combine a few tiers. If I had to break them down like that, it would end up like this:


S TIER:
1. Goku
2. Krystal

A TIER:
3. Ryu/Evil Ryu
4. Bomberman
5. Ristar
6. Toon Link

B TIER:
7. Tails
8. Fox
9. Toad
10. Jigglypuff
11. Saki
12. Meta Knight
13. Zero Suit Samus
14. Mach Rider
15. Lucario

C TIER:
16. Link
17. Luigi
18. Mario
19. Pikachu
20. Waluigi
21. Captain Falcon
22. Lucas

D TIER:
23. Peach
24. Ness
25. Wario
26. Power Suit Samus
27. Sonic

E TIER:
28. Knuckles
29. Megaman
30. Snake
31. Kirby

F TIER:
32. Yoshi.

The main problem I see with this is that it makes some characters seem much lower than they should be; Jigglypuff is a great character, which is why she's in "High Tier", but after the letter-splitting she's in B tier.

As many have said before, there can't really be a true tier list for Crusade since there aren't tournaments yet, but this is based on the general potential of each character, and save for a few, the placements have overall support. Even Falcon stated that the rankings make sense.

[perfecthell4]

Understandable. However, tournaments ad tiers are not directly related. Tiers can be made without tournaments, it's all based on metagame, which can develop in discussion rather than competition. The SFBR currently does it successfully. As for Jiggs, B tier is a respectable position, it's C tier that starts to get a bad connotation. Your ranking system works fine though.

[falcon8r]

Ugh, Yoshi... How can we help you? I honestly would put him one or two tiers up from where he is, but if it's the glitch with his Egg Lay move that's putting him down there, I get it.

I think in 0.6, this is mostly accurate. I can say that it may not be for 1.0, since we'll have more characters, and a massive amount of small changes have already been made to these characters.

Ugh... Waluigi should be B tier IMO. Remember his Down B infinite? (Which I FIXED for next demo ) He also has some of the best aerials, solid projectiles, and overall good damage output. I guess his only weaknesses would be recovery and lack of a reliable center-stage KO move. He can edgeguard relatively well though.