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Post by Dettadeus on Apr 10, 2011 16:04:49 GMT -5
Ok, this is becoming a flame war between the fans and the devs, so I'm going to at least gravitate the discussion here instead of letting it infect other threads.
This is where any further discussion of the Ancient Minister will be held. Please refrain from discussing why he should or should not be in on other threads; that's the main reason this is here. I may also ask that the art thread be locked, since I have no further updates at this time to post there and I want discussion moved here.
The current situation is that the fans want him in along with Falcon, Phantom and DMX absolutely abhor him at this point, and Werekill doesn't really care either way, but he wouldn't mind if he has better sprites.
You can check the thread in the art corner for the spritesheet and moveset and such. There's also some grades on the last page.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 16:36:49 GMT -5
I do think that Ancient Minister should be Crusade in some way. So far he has been the only antagonist/target rival of the Smash series in the single player mode (not including, Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Giga Bowser, or Taboo since they were final bosses).
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 10, 2011 16:41:49 GMT -5
I certainly want him in.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 16:58:53 GMT -5
Defiantly for an alternate costume or something.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 10, 2011 20:06:46 GMT -5
The way I see it, he can be included without taking someone out of the roster.
Make him the same as Evil Ryu, an alternate version of R.O.B. that you can choose between on the CSS.
Everybody wins; we get AM, Doc and Phantom don't have to worry about him EFFing up their roster.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 20:24:40 GMT -5
The way I see it, he can be included without taking someone out of the roster. Make him the same as Evil Ryu, an alternate version of R.O.B. that you can choose between on the CSS. Everybody wins; we get AM, Doc and Phantom don't have to worry about him EFFing up their roster. Sounds like a decision that will make everybody on both sides happy. How It Benefits The Fans: Those who requested Ancient Minister or are fans of him can play as him. How It Benefits The Game: Gives the game a Smash Bros rep and gives ROB more to work with |
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 10, 2011 20:27:28 GMT -5
ROB doesn't need more to work with.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 20:38:16 GMT -5
I know he doesnt need more to work with since what he has now is good enough. Im just saying the more the better sometimes.
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Post by Dettadeus on Apr 10, 2011 20:49:53 GMT -5
Apparently killing R.O.B.'s near-nonexistent nostalgia is a problem.
You guys are making this game mainly for those born in 1988? R.O.B. came out with Gyromite and Stack-Up in 1985 in Japan. You'd need people who are way out of this demographic to feel any nostalgia with R.O.B. besides playing him in Mario Kart DS or in Brawl.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on Apr 10, 2011 21:05:02 GMT -5
To be honest, a lot of Brawl players don't care for R.O.B., because they don't understand (being too young compared to R.O.B.) that he SAVED video games in the Western market.
I doubt anyone will play as R.O.B. for the nostalgia. The fact he's a robot with LAZARS is what gets people to play as him.
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Post by El Maiz on Apr 10, 2011 21:23:56 GMT -5
And he's fun.
Don't forget that.
Besides, being around in the video game crash doesn't even guarantee that you know or like him.
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Post by Dettadeus on Apr 10, 2011 21:26:36 GMT -5
Wait, let's go for a little zoom in on this quote.
If Falcon was born in 1988 and is the eldest brother, then Phantom was born later than this. And R.O.B.'s popularity died out after... something like 2 years, since he never got any more games or peripherals. Phantom, did you ever actually get to play Gyromite with a R.O.B.? I see a kink in the nostalgia factor here, especially if DMX's point of it being a game you're making for yourselves is true (which it likely isn't).
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Post by member 777 on Apr 10, 2011 21:28:09 GMT -5
want him in
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 21:57:59 GMT -5
@detta
I think its time to show the new members and the thousands viewing this outside the forum why he would be a good choice. You should give all you logic, support, etc on this thread to bring in more votes. Just posting up "would you like to see him playable" is not convincing enough for those who havent vote. Throw in some good sources, post the sprites, etc.
So far plenty of positive votes
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Post by Dettadeus on Apr 10, 2011 22:00:35 GMT -5
Might do that, but all that stuff is in the thread in the art corner. I think I'll just post a link.
Also, I just posted about him on the SmashBoards thread.
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Post by SmashKing201 on Apr 10, 2011 22:05:50 GMT -5
Yea, you can post a link. But why do that if you can copy and paste all the details on the very first post of this thread along with adding the sprite sheet for everyone to see as soon as they first open this thread rather than have them go from one thread to another. You know how lazy people can get.
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Post by Dettadeus on May 3, 2011 19:47:01 GMT -5
Alright, after discussing some things with a certain member of the dev team, I've decided that I'm going to redo the Minister's moveset to include Shadow Bugs and other things hailing from the Subspace Army.
Slightly more specific, all his kunai-related attacks will be replaced with attacks originating from the Subspace Emissary, so many of his attacks will include Shadow Bugs now.
I want to get this done before I begin respriting him.
I'm open to suggestions, and here's a list of his moves, with empty slots where new moves will be added:
n-jab:
f-tilt:
u-tilt:
d-tilt:
dash attack:
edge attack:
grab: This will probably incorporate Generic's idea of a R.O.B. performing the grab.
f-throw:
u-throw:
d-throw:
b-throw: swirls around and flings opponent into air behind minister, shoots a laser at them.
f-smash: a R.O.B. appears and tackles forward
d-smash:
u-smash:
n-aerial:
f-aerial:
b-aerial: same as R.O.B.'s, chucks hover-pad when in use.
u-aerial:
d-aerial: same as R.O.B.'s, chucks hover-pad if in use.
n-special: laser (same properties as R.O.B.'s, maybe an extra level of charge)
f-special: R.O.B. Launcher appears, fires a rocket.
d-special:
u-special: hovering platform appears below him, similar properties to R.O.B.'s u-special.
final smash: four R.O.B.s and a subspace bomb appear, two R.O.B.s will attempt to grab 1-2 opponents and hold them while the other two activate the subspace bomb. ancient minister hops on his hovering platform and gets out of the way. the explosion will be about the size of jigglypuff's puff-up, and will suck the R.O.B.s (and any opponents they have) into the explosion. explosion functions like a smart bomb with reversed knockback.
If you know who Shino Aburame is, you probably know where a number of Shadow Bug related attacks will come from.
I know his tilts will be Shadow Bugs, as well as d-smash and u-aerial at the least.
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Post by El Maiz on May 3, 2011 21:24:11 GMT -5
Maybe, for the Downspecial, he could shoot some Shadow Bugs into the air and they would rain down.
I have no idea.
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Post by Dettadeus on May 3, 2011 22:31:07 GMT -5
I was thinking that d-special would make a Primid appear. That would be an interesting idea for an up-smash.
So, a few of my ideas:
D-smash: Shadow Bugs appear on either side of him in blobs and slowly move outwards for a short time. Initial hit would be average power, being hit by the spreading bugs deals a few damage.
D-Special: A Primid forms from the Shadow Bugs. This attack can be charged to generate a better primid; no charge is a normal primid, a few seconds will generate a scope primid, a few more will generate a sword primid, and probably 6 seconds would generate a Metal Primid. Their power and stamina are proportionate to the level of charge; obviously a metal primid can take more hits than a scope primid. However, Metal Primids would attack more slowly and not move very much. This attack would have considerable cool-down time and probably a limit of 2 primids out at once. The Primids would de-spawn after 10-20 seconds or so if not manually destroyed.
F-throw: the R.O.B. simply throws the opponent forward.
D-Throw: The R.O.B. drops the opponent into a blob of Shadow Bugs which do consistent damage.
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Post by GoldenYuiitusin on May 3, 2011 23:08:43 GMT -5
Despite AM representing the SSE, I really don't like the idea of using Shadow Bugs....that's something more of what a Primid would do, and a Primid has much moveset potential as is.
AM should use R.O.B. Squad members and Subspace Bombs only, as outside things other than himself.
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